From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #118 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Tuesday, January 5 1999 Volume 02 : Number 118 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:11:03 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: OKC & Clinton Re-Election New Morris Book Portrays How Polls, Clinton Policy Intersected=20 By John F. Harris Washington Post Staff Writer Tuesday, December 22, 1998; Page A18=20 Once a week, every Wednesday night, the group huddled in the Yellow Oval = Room of the White House residence. The discussion grazed across an = ever-changing buffet of subjects high and low: welfare and immigration, = O.J. Simpson and Paula Jones.=20 But the real agenda was always centered on the man sitting at the center = in a large stuffed chair: President Clinton and his plans for winning a = second term.=20 The group of political consultants and senior White House staff, joined by = Vice President Gore and a handful of Cabinet members, was essentially the = war council for the 1996 campaign. Two years later, a window has opened on = that campaign and the techniques of its erratic chief strategist Dick = Morris, thanks to a new book by Morris that reprints 18 months of the = agendas he produced for the weekly strategy sessions.=20 The agendas reflect Morris's polling-based approach to politics and = suggest the degree to which Clinton's policy initiatives on such subjects = as crime, immigration and welfare were influenced by public opinion = surveys and other political judgments about how best to position the = president against the Republicans.=20 The documents also reveal how Clinton's advisers weighed the political = implications of even the most tragic events, and assessed ways in which he = might gain side benefits from his presidential duties.=20 On April 27, 1995 -- eight days after the Oklahoma City bombing -- Morris = directed a discussion of how to reap political advantage from the = aftermath, according to the agenda for the date. As the consultant saw it, = Clinton's handling of the tragedy would lead to "temporary gain: boost in = ratings," and how he could create "a permanent possible gain: sets up = Extremist Issue vs. Republicans."=20 On Aug. 1, 1996, among topics at the weekly meeting was how well Clinton = had responded to the mid-air explosion of TWA Flight 800. Polling data = showed that 84 percent of Americans had heard about Clinton's meeting with = families of the victims. Fifty percent said the emotional meeting made = them more likely to vote for Clinton over Robert J. Dole.=20 The agendas are printed as an appendix to a newly released edition of = "Behind the Oval Office," the campaign memoir that Morris published early = last year. Two years after the election, the agendas -- which were once so = sensitive that Gore had to return his copy at the end of each session -- = are noteworthy now primarily as historical documents.=20 They also highlight an irony that echoes through Clinton's presidency to = this day. At the very time that he was working so methodically to rebuild = his presidency -- polling on every event or issue that might conceivably = affect his prospects -- he was carrying on a relationship with Monica S. = Lewinsky that would later help opponents tear him down.=20 Senior White House officials said yesterday they had not reviewed Morris's = new book but said they had no reason to suspect that the agendas he = printed were not authentic. They cautioned, however, that the agendas that = Morris presented at the weekly political meetings -- before he left the = campaign in August 1996 -- often reflected his own interests and obsessions= more than Clinton's.=20 Even Morris, who said he published the agendas because they were "historica= l documents," emphasized: "I'm the author of the agendas, not Clinton."=20 Yet reading through the 200 pages of agendas -- and comparing them to = Clinton's schedule and statements in 1995 and 1996 -- make clear that = politics and policy became fused in Clinton's White House to a greater = degree than had been demonstrated.=20 On April 24, 1996, polling data presented at the weekly meeting showed = that an initiative to crack down on "deadbeat dads" who don't pay child = support would make 80 percent of respondents more likely to vote for = Clinton. Later that spring, he announced new regulations requiring states = to take more aggressive steps to track down fathers.=20 On June 12, consultants presented data showing that 87 percent of the = electorate favored a constitutional amendment guaranteeing new rights to = crime victims. Two weeks later, Clinton, surrounded by parents of slain = children, overruled recommendations of some constitutional experts in the = Justice Department and endorsed an amendment. He has rarely mentioned the = idea since 1996.=20 Clinton also looked closely at polls the next month in deciding to sign = what he called a flawed bill to overhaul welfare. Morris warned him that a = veto -- as strongly urged by Health and Human Services Secretary Donna E. = Shalala -- "would be a disaster" that would cause him to lose 8 percentage = points against Dole.=20 While the agendas Morris reprints may buttress those who believe Clinton = is a finger-in-the-wind politician, Morris in an interview yesterday said = the perception is unfair. Clinton may poll more than other presidents, he = said, but he has proven himself willing to take actions that go against = public opinion -- such as approving a U.S.-led financial rescue of Mexico = or sending U.S. troops to Bosnia. It is when he is taking unpopular steps, = Morris said, that Clinton examines polls most minutely to figure out the = best way to make a hard sale.=20 Numerous White House aides groaned or sputtered expletives when informed = about the new book by Morris. The consultant, who has worked with numerous = Republicans, was a despised figure among many Clinton aides even before he = was fired for consorting with a prostitute.=20 But even some aides who disdain Morris acknowledge that, over the years, = he has been far closer to Clinton than any other adviser. Especially in = times of crisis in his career -- after a defeat in Arkansas, after the = 1994 elections, and after the Lewinsky story broke in January -- Clinton = has turned to his old adviser.=20 The agendas reflect a continuing concern of the president -- maintaining = his popularity amid news of scandal. The team polled extensively on such = controversies as the White House's improper possession of FBI files, which = was hurting his numbers for a time in June 1996, and whether Clinton was = being hurt by the Paula Jones sexual harassment case. In the end, though, = the numbers always showed that people's support of Clinton's policies = overcame mistrust of him personally.=20 But the agendas also hint at a controversy to come: Morris urged extensive = Democratic National Committee issue advertising. "Use DNC to pay for it; = we control production," the consultant wrote on the agenda for June 26, = 1995.=20 The agendas show how much Clinton and his team worried about news events = that would seem, at first glance, unrelated to presidential politics. On = Oct. 3, 1995, in the wake of the O.J. Simpson verdict, Clinton's polling = team of Mark Penn and Doug Schoen surveyed the public about how whites and = blacks would react. Morris said Clinton was concerned about a possible = "right-wing backlash" after an acquittal.=20 On May 9, 1996, Clinton's political team discussed how to use that year's = Summer Olympics in Atlanta to the president's advantage -- amplifying his = message about "responsibility and self-improvement." For the 1996 = Democratic convention, the Clinton team polled on such possible speakers = as Walter Cronkite, Garth Brooks and John F. Kennedy Jr. before deciding = on Christopher Reeve.=20 The agendas also reflect the Clinton team's belief in sending messages = about cultural values. On Oct. 11, 1995, the agenda for the weekly meeting = was about how Clinton could recast his style to present more of a = reassuring "father image" -- in part to draw more female votes.=20 "Women crave men who act responsibly," Morris wrote. "Romance novel themes = are now of woman done wrong and rescued by Mr. Right."=20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:57:04 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: L&J: CNN: AN EXAMPLE OF RIGGING THE "CALL IN" POLLS! Received: from cor.oz.cc.utah.edu ([155.99.2.2]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:29:36 -0700 Received: from localhost (shb4391@localhost) by cor.oz.cc.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19734 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:27:23 -0700 (MST) X-Received: from locke.adm.by.net (mail@locke.adm.by.net [209.195.180.3]) by gos.oz.cc.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01979 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:19:51 -0700 (MST) X-Received: from majordom by locke.adm.by.net with local (Exim 2.05 #1) id 0zv1xj-0000Jh-00 (Debian); Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:25:39 -0500 X-Received: from db1.cc.rochester.edu [128.151.233.1] by locke.adm.by.net with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 0zv1xh-0000Jc-00 (Debian); Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:25:38 -0500 X-Received: from lysander.english.rochester.edu (eng1.english.rochester.edu) by DBV (PMDF V5.1-12 #28447) with SMTP id <01J5WPGF59KG9YCHW2@DBV> for Liberty-and-Justice@mailbox.by.NET; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:22:09 EDT Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:22:52 -0500 From: Patricia Neill Subject: L&J: CNN: AN EXAMPLE OF RIGGING THE "CALL IN" POLLS! X-Sender: pnpj@db7.cc.rochester.edu To: jad@lcuxlm.lucent.COM Message-id: <2.2.32.19981229162252.00705968@db7.cc.rochester.edu> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Sender: owner-liberty-and-justice@mailbox.by.net Precedence: list ReSent-Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:27:17 -0700 (MST) ReSent-From: Scott Bergeson ReSent-To: David Sagers ReSent-Subject: L&J: CNN: AN EXAMPLE OF RIGGING THE "CALL IN" POLLS! ReSent-Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Ah, yes. The polls. Anyone who believes in polls has an obvious Reality Perception Problem (RPP), a disease swiftly becoming more pervasive and dangerous by the minute. Thank goodness the people who suffer from this disease the most are media people and politicians. It will be their = downfall. Patty Area: 10TH_AMD (10th Amendment Fidonet Conference) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - - - ------------ Date : Dec 28 '98, 03:34 Dir >From : Roy J. Tellason 1:270/615.0 To : all =20 Subj : and the survey said... = =20 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - - - ------------ * Forwarded (from: TECH-CHAT) by Roy J. Tellason using timEd 1.01. * Originally from Matt Mc_Carthy (1:396/1.4) to All. * Original dated: Dec 27 '98, 16:40 Here's something I received in Email: The following is quoted verbatim from "letters to the editor", Tampa Tribune, December 27,1998 - -+-------------------------------------------------------------------------= - - - ----------------- CNN aired the impeachment hearings last Saturday. The TV screen flashed two telephone numbers. If you were against impeachment, the number to dial was (202) 624-1115. If you were in favor of impeachment the number was (202) 624-1111. I was for impeachment. I dialed the "1111" number every minute for two hours and 15 minutes and never got through. The response was one ring followed by a recorded message "all circuits are busy, please try again later." After 15 minutes of pushing the redial button, I got suspicious and frustrated and dialed the "1115" number. I got through the first time. For every 20 or so times dialing "1111" only to hear "all circuits are busy" I dialed "1115" and got in every time. I am an old telephone PBX man and I sold telephone systems for years. I assure you that what I experienced is statistically impossible if both numbers were configured the same. I am going from the local 738 exchange to the Washington, D.C. 624 office. If the circuits are busy between the two offices, the system will get you there via New York, Chicago or Boston, etc. If all circuits are indeed saturated both 1111 and 1115 will get the same message. However, if there are five trunks per number and 1111 is configured with one answer trunk and four call transfer trunks to the recorded message and 1115 has five trunks and they are all answer trunks taking in "no impeachment" votes, that's where the Democrats can say "the survey proves" that the American people are against impeaching the president. Another Clinton lie! A desperate move by the Democrats to keep their pompous, arrogant, vindictive, immoral, lying man in office. He's not my president. - JEROME L. ARCHAMBAULT Dunedin - -+-------------------------------------------------------------------------= - - - -------------------- I'm _NOT_ a "telephone man", but can see where it would be relatively easy for _anyone_ from a 'business phone' with multiple lines to 'jam' such a survey depending on how many lines the "surveyor" had available for rollover. I've spent a lot of time watching CSPAN, primarily to gather info for my HDTV echo. The CSPAN policy (not polling mind you) appears to be to accept one caller from each successive 'choice' in sequence. Quite often when they go to another line, no one is there. It's made me wonder, was there really a person there who got tired of waiting and running up LD charges, or had someone called and put that line on 'hold' just to tie up the system? M. ___ msged 1.99L MSC - Origin: Matt's Hot Solder Point, New Orleans, LA (1:396/1.4) - ---=20 * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ARTICLE I =20 Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech or of the press;... - United States Constitution =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D NOTE: In accordance with Fair Use law, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Berlin Wall Came Down The Soviet Union Collapsed The U.S. Government Then Turned On It's Own People The State Governments Followed The U.S. Government's Lead. =20 - Les Lemke =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= - -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D Submit message by sending to Liberty-and-Justice@mailbox.by.net =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= - -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D Unsub info - send e-mail to , putting "unsubscribe liberty-and-justice" in the msg BODY (not subject) List-Owner of Liberty-and-Justice is Mike Goldman - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:09:01 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: GSL> UN AMMUNITION PANEL Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:43:17 -0700 Received: from listbox.com by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA05438; Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:29:23 -0700 Received: (qmail 29687 invoked by uid 516); 30 Dec 1998 15:40:15 -0000 Delivered-To: rkba-co@majordomo.pobox.com Received: (qmail 29256 invoked from network); 30 Dec 1998 15:39:34 -0000 Received: from chai.pobox.com (208.210.124.35) by majordomo.pobox.com with SMTP; 30 Dec 1998 15:39:34 -0000 Received: from mail2.rockymtn.net (ns2.rockymtn.net [166.93.8.2]) by chai.pobox.com (VMailer) with ESMTP id 5C9AB154C; Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:38:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from 166-93-76-185.rmi.net (166-93-76-185.rmi.net [166.93.76.185]) by mail2.rockymtn.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA23355; Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:27:19 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199812301527.IAA23355@mail2.rockymtn.net> X-Sender: davisda@shell.rmi.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:28:51 -0700 To: davisda@rmi.net From: Donna Ferolie (by way of Douglas Davis ) Subject: GSL> UN AMMUNITION PANEL Sender: owner-rkba-co.new@majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rkba-co@majordomo.pobox.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Posted to rkba-co by Donna Ferolie (by way of = Douglas Davis ) - ----------------------- http://thePentagon.com/FullBookJacket ------------ http://GunsSaveLives.com= For Immediate Release THE UN AMMUNITION PANEL The Ammunition Panel met at the United Nations in New York from April 27, to May 1,1998. At this time the membership of the Ammunition Panel is not publicly known. The panel is working under the unchallenged assumption that control of ammunition is the key to the control of small arms. The long term goal is to substantially increase regulation of international commercial shipments to complete bans on categories of ammunition such as prohibition of civilian possession military caliber rounds ( 308, 30-06, 303 etc ).Having these anti-firearm groups meeting in " secret " in order to make public policy for the Untied Nations is not acceptable. Law-abiding firearm owners have every right to be afraid - very afraid ! For more information contact: Donna Ferolie R.R 1 Hilton Beach Ontario, Canada POR 1GO=20 Fax: ( 705 )246-0689 e-mail: donnaferolie@sympatico.ca http://www3@sympatico.ca/donnaferolie Proud to be a firearm owner ! - -------------------------- GunsSaveLives Internet Discussion List This list is governed by an acceptable use policy: http://www.wizard.net/~kc/policy.html or available upon request. To unsubscribe send a message to majordomo@listbox.com with the following line in the body: unsubscribe gsl GUNSSAVELIVES (GSL) IS A PRIVATE UNMODERATED LIST. THE OWNER TAKES NO RESPONSIBILTY FOR CONTENT. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. For Help with Majordomo Commands, please send a message to: Majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com with the word Help in the body of the message - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:47:29 -0700 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: New mailing list and olympic hypocrisy - ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE---- PLEASE DISTRIBUTE AND REPOST WIDELY!!!! Hi all! At long last, the Nolympics mail list is up and ready for business. (Thanks to the folks at aros.net for their invaluable assistance in getting the list functioning properly!) The goal of the Nolympics list is to facilitate the efforts of all people working to end gun control at the Olympics. The list is a two-way list which means that you are encouraged to post your own thoughts, ideas, suggestions, questions, and to help ot hers who have questions or problems. If we're going to succeed, it needs to be a group effort! Please keep posts as brief as possible, stay "on topic", and refrain from posting unnecessary messages. Doing so will keep the volume of mail down so that people don't get overwhelmed and can stay focused. This is NOT a list for debate about the Second Amendment or the merits of gun control. There are plenty of other lists for that. This list is for people who choose to work on the "Gun Control and Olympics" problem. The list owner (me) reserves the right to remove subscribers who persist in violating the list rules after adequate notice of violation has been given. To subscribe to the Nolympics list, send a message to: majordomo@aros.net In the body of the message put: subscribe nolympics You will then get further instructions and full information by return mail. You can unsubscribe at any time, so consider joining us! (Expect some minor delays, since I'm sure there are some bugs I haven't found yet!) If you have your own web page, _please_ consider linking to the Nolympics site - http://www.therighter.com/column/Olympics.html. In other news, it has now come to light that the Salt Lake Olympics bid committee spent $10,000 on - you guessed it! - FIREARMS which were given to various International Olympic Committee members prior to Salt Lake City being named as the site for the 20 02 Olympics. Whether these very expensive rifles and shotguns were "gifts" or "bribes" will ultimately be decided by those investigating alleged bribery by the Olympic bid committee, but half of them were "billed after the IOC enacted rules that barred its members fr om receiving gifts worth more than $50 initially and later $150". And whether the recipients of these firearms are even allowed to possess them in their own countries is unknown, since the list of recipients hasn't been released. The rifles and shotguns were manufactured by Utah's famed Browning firearms. You can read the story at: http://www.sltrib.com/1998/dec/12191998/utah/68433.htm Now, it's shameful enough that there are allegations of bribery surrounding the Salt Lake City Olympics. It's even worse when that alleged bribery involves "gifts" of firearms to officials who are actively working to subvert the right of Americans to ke ep and bear arms. Apparently these officials believe that wealthy, elitist Olympics officials have the right to firearms, but ordinary American citizens, even those who have been subjected to a rigorous background check, do not "deserve" that same right . But it's even worse... Those of you who have ever purchased a firearm are no doubt familiar with the BATF's Form 4473 (a permanent record of all firearms transfers which the BATF somehow maintains is _not_ gun registration), without which one cannot pur chase a firearm from a manufacturer, dealer or Federal Firearms Licensee. Question 9a asks: "Are you the actual buyer of the firearm listed on this form? If you answer 'no' to this question, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm to you." I've been told that this question is intended to prevent a person from buying firearms and transferring them to people who may not legally purchase them. Yet it appears that the SL Olympics bid committee folks not only purchased firearms not intended for their own personal use, they transferred them to persons not legally permitted to pur ch Were the IOC officials who received the firearms eligible to purchase them? Probably not. The BATF has this to say on the subject: "An alien who is legally in the United States will be considered to be a resident of a State for the purpose of complying with the GCA if he has resided in that State continuously for at least 90 days before purchasing a firearm. Note, however, that even a legal resident alien who has lived in the U.S. for many years will have to wait 90 days before purchasing a firearm if he changes his State of residence. "Alternative to the 90-day Standard "An alien legally in the United States and who has been authorized in writing by the principal officer of an embassy or consulate to purchase a firearm would be considered a resident of the State where the embassy or consulate is located for purposes of purchasing a firearm. "The Federal firearms licensee must attach the letter of authorization to the completed Form 4473 and retain it as part of the permanent records." Falsifying Form 4473 in any way is a federal felony, but I haven't heard a word about the BATF investigating Olympics officials. I guess they're too busy stemming the tide of highly dangerous bayonet lugs. But I know _I'd_ love to see those Form 4473' s. Wouldn't you? You might consider calling your local BATF office (maybe anonymously!) and asking why they're not investigating these probably illegal firearms purchases. You might even enlist some HCI members who will no doubt be _horrified_ that such things are allow ed to happen! Of course I don't think that _anyone_ should have to fill out those wretched forms, or pass background checks to purchase a firearm. But if Americans have to be subjected to such onerous laws, then so should visitors to this country. I know of no Olymp ic nation that will allow an American to carry firearms while in its territory. The whole thing's appalling. Olympic officials are allowed to buy guns illegally, transfer them illegally, and all the while they're insisting that law-abiding Americans must be forceably disarmed. So far no bills concerning gun control and the Olympics have been filed, which is to be expected. Any such bill will likely be negotiated behind closed doors and passed without opportunity for public comment or debate. But rest assured - Utah legislat ors are not "asleep at the wheel". Anti-gun Senate President Lane Beattie has filed a bill request entitled "Criminal Penalty for Drive-By Shooting". And all this time I thought drive-by shootings were _already_ illegal! Then again, maybe the new bill will exempt Olympics officials..... This will likely be the last post to The Righter dealing with the Olympics problem. So if you're interested, please join the Nolympics list, and if you're not interested, things will get back to normal with a New Year's column on Wednesday or Thursday. Thanks to all of you for your support and patience! Best wishes for a Happy New Year! Sarah Sarah Thompson, M.D. http://www.therighter.com Stop the Gun Ban! NO-lympics 2002! Check out http://www.therighter.com/column/Olympics.html And now you can link directly to the Nolympics page too! - ------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to righter-list-request@aros.net with the line unsubscribe righter-list in the body. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy --text only no attachments ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE---- - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant." -- John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty" 1859 - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 15:08:09 -0700 From: "S. Thompson" Subject: Utah Shooting Sports Site Forwarded from John Spangler of USSC: NOTICE TO ALL USSC BOARD MEMBERS AND OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES- The Utah Shooting Sports Council (USSC) web site is now open at: UtahShootingSports.org You are requested to pass this address to anyone who might be interested. USSC material is currently the bulk of the material on the site, but Mr. Kevin Angus is working on adding other sections of interest to competitive shooters in Utah. We think this will be a good mix and be mutually beneficial. USSC material is aimed at presenting information related to legislative matters of interest to those who legally own and use firearms. It also provides information about gun safety, firearms sports, gun collecting and other related topics for people with varying degrees of knowledge or interest in firearms. This site is currently being developed and admittedly needs some work to make it more user friendly. YOUR SUGGESTIONS will be most welcome!! Comments, complaints, corrections, suggestions, or praise should be sent to John Spangler jhspang@ix.netcom.com John Spangler=97Serving Collectors and Students of Firearms and Military History. Antique and Collectable Firearms and Militaria Headquarters http://oldguns.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:00:41 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Pro-gunner for Newt's Seat Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Tue, 05 Jan 1999 10:04:40 -0700 Received: from smtp3.erols.com by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA11175; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:50:28 -0700 Received: from gunowners.org (207-172-73-64.s64.tnt1.man.erols.com [207.172.73.64]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA05480; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:42:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901051642.LAA05480@smtp3.erols.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:39:51 -0500 From: Gun Owners of America Reply-To: Gun Owners of America To: goamail@gunowners.org Subject: Pro-gunner for Newt's Seat X-Mailer: Gun Owners of America's registered AK-Mail 3.0b [eng] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline RE: Pro-gunner for Newt's Seat. From: Larry Pratt, Executive Director Gun Owners of America Political Victory Fund January 5th, 1999 Dear Friend of the Second Amendment: Like you, I was delighted when Newt Gingrich announced his resignation, both as Speaker of the House and as Representative for Georgia's Sixth Congressional District. Newt did a lot of damage to your gun rights: 1) Newt sank the pro-gun Smith amendment 2) Newt passed the Lautenberg gun ban 3) Newt passed the anti-gun "Terror" bill 4) and the list goes on and on. Now you and I have a chance to elect a true pro-gun member of Congress in Newt's place. Dr. Christina Jeffrey (a professor at Kennesaw State University in Georgia) has recently announced her candidacy for this seat. CHRISTINA JEFFREY IS MORE THAN JUST A PRO-GUN LADY -- SHE'S A GUN RIGHTS ACTIVIST LIKE YOU AND ME. THE OTHER CONTENDER IS A PROVEN ANTI-GUNNER AND A PROVEN LOSER: former Georgia State Senator Johnny Isakson (R-Marietta). He's already lost twice in two attempts to step up to higher office. The bottom line is Christina Jeffrey's campaign needs to raise $150,000 immediately. The election will most likely be held sometime in February -- just 6 weeks away. The election will be over before you know it. So please, send the most generous contribution you can: $1,000, $500, $250, $100 or whatever you can afford to: "CHRISTINA JEFFREY FOR CONGRESS" P.O. BOX 1445 KENNESAW, GA 30144 Christina Jeffrey's opponent is a multi-millionaire with a long anti-gun history. As State Senator, Johnny Isakson co-authored the Handgun Control, Inc. version of the so-called Georgia "Brady Registration" bill. In 1993, Mr. Isakson got it passed through the Georgia Senate. But gun rights activists in Georgia managed to kill it later in the Georgia House of Representatives. Unfortunately in 1995, the so-called "Brady Registration" passed into law in Georgia. Johnny Isakson also pushed to let cities and counties all over the state impose 3-day waiting periods. When that didn't fly, he voted to let local governments impose gun control on their own citizens or people driving through. Fortunately, local gun control didn't pass either. The bottom line is: As bad as things are now, if Johnny Isakson had his way, they'd be much worse. Now, Johnny Isakson wants to move up to the U.S. Congress. As you know, anti-gunners got a big boost in the 1998 elections -- thanks largely to Newt Gingrich's contempt for pro-gun voters who had put Republicans in control of Congress back in 1994. That's why it's vital that you join me to help stop anti-gun Johnny Isakson from being elected to Congress. Mr. Isakson must be stopped now, or he may forever be a knife in our back. You see, Georgia's Sixth Congressional District is overwhelmingly Republican. The Democrats have never been able to win there. That's why this time the Democrats are running their man as a Republican. Johnny Isakson has been endorsed by the Georgia Democrats' party leader: Governor Zell Miller, a close friend of Bill Clinton. Other bosses are lining up behind the Governor. And liberal fat cats are pouring money into Mr. Isakson's war chest in an attempt to buy the election. But they've got one big problem: they don't know who they're up against. I know Christina Jeffrey, and let me tell you: she's a rare breed. Christina was born in 1947 at Fort Bliss, Texas, the daughter of a career United States Army officer. Eldest of eight children, she excelled at everything she did, from her classwork to being a champion swimmer. Christina won numerous scholarships, married in college, yet still managed to achieve the near impossible feat of getting her Ph.D. while working and raising four children. Christina began her academic career as Assistant Professor at Troy State University and she's been moving up ever since. She's been twice elected President of the American Society of Public Administration Georgia Chapter. Christina's one of the top experts in her field -- which is management of government. CHRISTINA CAN MAKE BUREAUCRATS SWEAT BULLETS. The liberals in Washington are nervous at the very thought of seeing the full power of the Office of a Congressman in the hands of somebody like Dr. Jeffrey. I've met with her on a number of occasions recently. She radiates graciousness and charm. One thing that's consistently surprised me about Christina Jeffrey is how tough she is: No matter what's put in her way, she jumps the hurdle and keeps on fighting. I think the word that best describes Christina Jeffrey is "formidable." IN SHORT, MY YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN WASHINGTON HAVE CONVINCED ME THAT WHAT WE HAVE IN CHRISTINA JEFFREY IS THE ANTI-GUNNERS' WORST NIGHTMARE: A HARDLINE FEMALE PRO-GUN CHAMPION. You and I've got a rare opportunity to take a wide-open Congressional seat in a conservative district. And we're facing a hack politician: a Democrat in Republican drag. Meanwhile, wherever she goes in the district, Christina is surrounded by excited voters who sense something is happening. Women and young people love her; the only thing I know to compare it with is the Jesse Ventura phenomenon that swept Minnesota this fall. This race is ours to win. That's why I've helped Christina retain two of the best professionals in the field to organize her campaign and manage the scores of enthusiastic volunteers who are turning out to work for her. Her team has prepared a winning plan to defeat Johnny Isakson: a grass-roots program that takes the message straight to the people. We can't be stopped, no matter how much money Mr. Isakson squanders on TV. But unlike in Minnesota, where the state had to pay $300,000 in public funding to Jesse Ventura's campaign, this time the government won't be giving her a dime. And you know Christina's teacher's salary won't be enough to do the job. HERE'S HOW YOU CAN HELP: As I said, this is a rare opportunity to capture a great prize: an open congressional seat. You and I can help win it if we raise money for the Christina Jeffrey campaign. The Christina Jeffrey campaign needs to raise $150,000 immediately. That's why I'm asking you to make a rare gift, more than you'd ordinarily give. This is because of the great benefits you and I will reap when Dr. Jeffrey defeats anti-gun Johnny Isakson and goes to Washington as a constitutional leader and a champion for gun owners. Please send the most generous contribution you can: $100, $250, $500, or whatever you can afford. Remember the maximum legal limit for direct campaign donations is $1,000 per person. For example a husband and wife can give $1,000 each for a total of $2,000. Please make your check or money order payable to: "CHRISTINA JEFFREY FOR CONGRESS" Mail your check or money order right away to: CHRISTINA JEFFREY FOR CONGRESS P.O. BOX 1445 KENNESAW, GA 30144 Please write somewhere on your check or money order the word "GOA" so Christina will know exactly where her support is coming from. Also, if you give $200 or more, please write in the memo area of your check your occupation and employer. As you know, for disclosure purposes, election laws require campaigns to report that information. I hope you will give as much as you can. I also hope you will mail your contribution today. The election will most likely be held sometime in February -- just 6 weeks away. Newt has said he'll resign effective January 3rd, and the election is expected 30+ days after that. Christina needs to hear from you right away so she can plan effectively. Please respond, there is no time to lose. Yours for the Second Amendment, Larry Pratt P.S. The special election to replace Rep. Newt Gingrich who is retiring from Congress will be held soon. Please act quickly to help pro-gun leader Dr. Christina Jeffrey. She needs your help to raise money for her campaign to defeat anti-gun politician Johnny Isakson. Please mail your contribution today. ******************************** Paid for and Authorized by Gun Owners of America Political Victory Fund 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151 Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408 E-Mail: goamail@gunowners.org http://www.gunowners.org - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 13:22:56 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Fw: CNN "Guns Under Fire" POLL and Hatchet Job...... Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Tue, 05 Jan 1999 13:07:35 -0700 Received: from www55.linkexchange.com by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA11407; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:53:29 -0700 Received: (qmail 29840 invoked by uid 100); 5 Jan 1999 20:05:13 -0000 Mailing-List: ListBot mailing list contact membercouncil-help@listbot.com Delivered-To: mailing list membercouncil@listbot.com Received: (qmail 24188 invoked from network); 5 Jan 1999 20:05:03 -0000 Received: from pop01.globecomm.net (206.253.129.185) by www61.linkexchange.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 1999 20:05:03 -0000 Received: from default (tam-fl11-08.ix.netcom.com [206.214.117.136]) by pop01.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id PAA24277 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:04:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002d01be38e6$bb520220$8875d6ce@default> Reply-To: "Charles E. Hoskinson" From: "Charles E. Hoskinson" To: "membercouncil" Subject: Fw: CNN "Guns Under Fire" POLL and Hatchet Job...... Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:05:15 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_1A4DB3A2.45244954" - --=_1A4DB3A2.45244954 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Member Council of Tampa Bay - http://home.tampabay.rr.com/membercouncil - -----Original Message----- From: Gregory To: Joe Tartaro ; Bruce Stern ; Ralph = Sherman ; Paul Payne ; Joel = Partridge ; ILA EVC NRA ; Gary Nalband ; Paul Longo ; = Steve Loban ; Steve Kendrick Cybershooters ; Scott Hoffman ; William Frenchu ; Damian R. Eads ; Fairfield Cty Second Amend = ; Robert Crook Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 9:30 PM Subject: CNN "Guns Under Fire" POLL and Hatchet Job...... CNN Online is trying to do a hatchet job on the Gun Industry & the Cities = Lawsuit stuff....... =20 AND- there's a "poll" on whether gun mfgrs. are "responsible"... =20 You know what to do....(vote in the poll..!!!!) =20 and you may forward this message ad infinitum... =20 The URL is: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1998/guns/overview/ =20 Get going, troops !!! =20 Gregory ______________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, write to membercouncil-unsubscribe@listbot.com Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com/ - --=_1A4DB3A2.45244954 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Part.001" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Part.001" PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBXMyBIVE1MLy9FTiI+DQo8SFRNTD4N CjxIRUFEPg0KDQo8TUVUQSBjb250ZW50PXRleHQvaHRtbDtjaGFyc2V0PWlzby04ODU5LTEgaHR0 cC1lcXVpdj1Db250ZW50LVR5cGU+PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBX 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