From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #121 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Friday, January 22 1999 Volume 02 : Number 121 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:37:07 -0700 From: "S. Thompson" Subject: ALERT: Deseret News needs response This story appeared in yesterday's Deseret News. It endorses Rep. David Jones's abominable bill, which would effectively destroy ALL concealed carry in Utah. The bill would ban concealed carry in schools, churches, Olympic venues and even in the privacy of your OWN home. We desperately NEED to respond to this article! Please take the time to respond to: letters@desnews.com. Talking points: 1. Armed citizens DO prevent violent crime, as demonstrated conclusively by Dr. John Lott and Dr. Gary Kleck. 2. The "statistical reality" alleged by the Deseret News that: "The likelihood of such a life-threatening incident is considerably less than the chance of accident or misuse." is not a statistical reality. It is a lie. There is no evidence at all that the likelihood of an accident is greater than the likelihood of being a victim. 3. Opinion is neither logical nor factually correct. 4. Schools and Olympic venues are PUBLIC property and may not lawfully deny citizens rights that are guaranteed by both the constitution and existing law. 5. Owners of private residences should be able to decide for themselves whether to ban firearms. They have that ability under current criminal trespass law. Rep. Jones's bill would make it illegal for you to carry a firearm on your own property or to allow someone else to do so. 6. The Deseret News is comparing apples and oranges. That criminals use guns is in no way relevant to the lawful carrying of firearms by good citizens. The truth is that no holder of a CCW has EVER committed a violent crime involving a firearm. Likewise, airline fatalities are not relevant to the discussion. More people die of adverse reactions to legally prescribed medications than die of firearms injuries. Should we also ban prescription medications, or maybe doctors? 7. Permit holders SHOULD feel threatened by being forceably disarmed whenever they plan to visit a school, church, Olympic event, or the home of a friend or relative. Criminals will target these people precisely because they know they are disarmed. 8. There is no such thing as an "appropriate restriction" of Constitutional rights guaranteed by the Utah Constitution as well as the Second Amendment. 9. Had ANYONE at KSL had a lawfully concealed firearm, the two people injured by a mentally ill woman would likely not have been injured. It should not be possible for one sick person to terrorize an entire building full of innocent people without any opportunity for those people to defend themselves. I'd suggest choosing one or two talking points and writing a response to this ill-thought-out editorial. It looks like we've got our work cut out for us! Thanks! Sarah The following story appeared on deseretnews.com on January 18, 1999, 12:00 AM MST ======== Headline: Keep schools, churches gun-free Author: Deseret News editorial An overwhelming number of Utahns advocate the obvious -- guns should be kept out of schools and churches. We concur. But handgun advocates have a strong counterpoint: If concealed weapons are banned from schools, churches, hospitals or anywhere else, then someone with evil intentions could prey upon unarmed pupils, parishioners or patients with impunity. They could inflict serious harm or death without fear of return fire. Most potential violators, however, probably already feel that way. The other main argument against any restriction is that criminals will ignore a ban, so it would only penalize the law-abiding citizenry. Both notions give pause for reflection, but they are outweighed by statistical reality. The likelihood of such a life-threatening incident is considerably less than the chance of accident or misuse. That logical opinion is shared by 90 percent of Utahns who believe all weapons should be banned from public schools. Eighty-six percent think guns -- including concealed weapons -- should be kept from churches. Three-fourths want firearms prohibited from Olympic venues in 2002. While 58 percent feel they should be kept out of private businesses open to the public. Utah House Minority Leader Dave Jones, D-Salt Lake, will sponsor a bill this legislative session that would allow school administrators, Olympic venues, churches and owners of private residences to ban all weapons. Those prohibitions are not unreasonable. There are moments, certainly, when a person could wish he or she was armed. The odds of such an incident are less, however, than the chance of accidental shooting or of having a person's own weapon used against him or even causing a confrontation to escalate into a shootout that kills other innocents. There is no need for such risk in schools or places of worship. All weapons should be kept from the premises. The United States leads the world in firearm fatalities at 14.24 people per 100,000 because of the prevalence of easily accessible guns. A country saturated with guns increases the likelihood of misuse. Fatalities in the United States are five to six times higher than in Europe or Australia or New Zealand, and 95 times higher than in Asia. If such a death rate were prevalent in the aviation industry, planes would promptly be grounded until the problem was fixed. Foods with those kinds of health odds would be banned in a day. Recognizing that, the issue of appropriate restrictions on guns is a sensitive one given Second-Amendment considerations. There are many responsible and reasonable owners of concealed-carry permits in Utah who are well-trained and safe. They should not feel threatened by leaving their weapons at the door when entering schools, churches or some homes. The vast majority of their time is still open to being armed, if desired. - ---------- Copyright 1999, Deseret News Publishing Co. leg-alerts is owned and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. The opinions in this alert represent those of the list owner only, unless otherwise attributed or specified. To subscribe to leg-alerts send a message to: majordomo@aros.net in the body of the message put: subscribe leg-alerts PLEASE REMEMBER THAT YOU CANNOT POST TO THIS LIST! Send comments, alerts, suggestions, etc. to: righter@therighter.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:02:51 -0700 From: "S. Thompson" Subject: INFO: RKBA An amazing list of links to articles we can use to defend our right to keep and bear arms. I haven't checked them all yet (not even most of them), but Rick is a reliable source of information. Sarah It occurred to me that you might like to have some more links that expose lies from Kellerman, Sugarman and the like. These are the raw URLs from my "Dezinformatzia Debunked!" section of my future webpage. Enjoy! Rick http://www.ca-rkba.org/ncrkba/violence.txt http://www.ca-rkba.org/ncrkba/schaffer.txt http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/ts/story.html?s=v/nm/19981231/ts/cities_3.html http://www.grnc.org/may97/lyingiia.htm http://www.albany.net/~cheshmat/Lauren/present3.html http://www.netside.com/~lcoble/18.html http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/crime51.html http://rkba.org/research/rkba.faq http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-284.html http://www.pulpless.com/stopsamp.html http://www.guntruths.com/index.html http://www.disinfo.com/ http://www.arcrafts.com/think/Legal/suterrx.html http://amfire.com/afistatistics/general.html http://www.junkscience.com/nov98/lottgun.htm http://www.founding.org/clearing.html http://www.2ndlawlib.org/journals/tennmed.html http://www.economist.com/3qrEgbt3/editorial/freeforall/current/ld5233.html http://www.assiniboinec.mb.ca/user/downes/fallacy/index.htm http://carmen.artsci.washington.edu/propaganda/home.htm http://www.conspire.com/newt.html http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/~llou/guns.html http://www.boortz.com/pontific.htm http://www.toledoblade.com:80/editorial/letters/8k23lett.htm http://www.toledoblade.com:80/editorial/edit/8k23fole.htm http://www.thestar.com/thestar/back_issues/ED19980501/news/980501NEW02b_CI-YOUTH1.html http://www-cgi.cnn.com/US/9810/15/school.violence.01/ http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Kates/prohib.fails http://rkba.org/letters/suter.kellerman.home-invasion http://amfire.com/afistatistics/children.html http://www.aloha.net/~davidht/koloa/refstats.htm http://usa-patriot.net/domvil.html http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/crime/index.html http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/crime/ http://www.umsl.edu/~libweb/edlib/edstats/n96html/n07a.htm http://www.av.qnet.com/~harv/stats.htm http://www.ncpa.org/hotlines/juvcrm/eocp2.html http://www.saf.org/cgi-bin/wwwwais?getdesc=yes&host=wais.mainstream.net&port=210&source=second_amendment&searchprog=waissearch&selection=none&docnum=5&keywords=rem+7600 http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/98oct/clintec.htm http://www.claremont.org/wheeler3.htm http://www.shadeslanding.com/firearms/hci_nazi.html http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/hci-doc.html Unsorted websites - Mix of Leftwing mindset/tactics and more debunking Apologies in advance for doubles or deadlinks. RV http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/7006/psychopolitics.html http://www.mojones.com/MOTHER_JONES/JF94/sugarmann.html http://www.phillynews.com/daily_news/98/Aug/11/local/GUNN11.htm http://www.prepcom.org/ http://csf.colorado.edu/cgi-bin/mfs/24/csf/web/psn/marx/Archive/1848-NRZ/nrz50.html?26#mfs http://www.gn.apc.org/Reality/polemic/strat.htm http://www.founding.org/column37.html http://www.enviroweb.org/cco/right/ http://csf.Colorado.EDU/psn/marx/ http://csf.colorado.edu/cgi-bin/mfs/24/csf/web/psn/marx/Archive/1847-CL/1850-add01.txt?280#mfs http://www.best.com/~jdulaney/marxblue.html http://garnet.berkeley.edu:3333/EDINlist/.educ/.youth/CCO/ucpinfo/swnm/guide1/rwindex.html http://www.survival.com.mx/hci.html http://www.prepcom.org/low/index.html http://www.theaustralian.com.au/masthead/theoz/state/4167320.htm http://www.access.digex.net/~croaker/batflies.html http://www.post-gazette.com/win/default.asp http://ls.wustl.edu/WULQ/75-3/753-4.html#fnB18 http://www2.hawaii.edu/~rummel/DBG.CHAP1.HTM http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/1998-11/15/064r-111598-idx.html http://www.jbs.org/tna/1994/vo10no07.htm http://www.heartland.org/gcps.htm http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~zj5j-gttl/guns.htm http://www.ozemail.com.au/~confiles/overseas.html http://home.pacbell.net/dragon13/policeguns.html http://www.dsausa.org/rl/Docs/Lingo.html http://www.armscontrol.org/ http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpwh07.htm http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19981221_xex_un_plans_glo.shtml http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_btl/19981223_xcbtl_executive_.shtml http://www.jeremiahproject.com/prophecy/nomorals.html http://www.pledge.org/ http://www.fema.gov/y2k/ http://communities.msn.com/outdoors/magazines/firearms/1/australia.asp http://www.pbs.org/thinktank/transcript.210.html http://www.scruz.net/~kangaroo/L-harvardberkeley.htm http://www.uniblab.com/collie/gunnotes.html http://www.uniblab.com/collie/guncontrol.html#back http://www.un.org/Depts/ddar/index.html http://www.pcvp.org/firearms/guncntn2.html http://www.WorldNetDaily.com/bluesky_smith/19990119_xcsof_clintons_w.shtml http://www.prepcom.org/text/pc5/index.html - -- The Right to Self Defense is a Fundamental Human Right - RKBA - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:56:55 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Received: from slc-smtp.utah-inter.net ([206.107.178.5]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:43:48 -0700 Received: from server (tc1-13.utah-inter.net [208.14.200.23]) by slc-smtp.utah-inter.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-0U10L2S100) with SMTP id AAA320; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:40:49 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990121123217.007fe100@utah-inter.net> X-Sender: verbose@utah-inter.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:32:17 -0700 To: hartleya@inquo.net,gtscraig@aros.net,drew.chamberlain@juno.com, ajgaunt@xmission.com,asitmain.bgrant@state.ut.us,jackbooted@urjet.net, ldnewby@juno.com,verbose@utah-inter.net,lpltd@sprintmail.com, steves@mail.aros.net,rpm@ceramatec.com From: Maxwell Smart Subject: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Here are the e-mail addresses for the legislature. Enjoy! Gadair@le.state.ut.us (Gerry Adair) Jalexand@le.state.ut.us (Jeff Alexander) eallen@le.state.ut.us (Edgar Allen) rallen@le.state.ut.us (Ron Allen) sallen@le.state.ut.us (Sheryl Allen) eanderso@le.state.ut.us (Eli Anderson) parent@le.state.ut.us (Patrice Arent) lbaca@le.state.ut.us (Loretta Baca) lbeattie@le.state.ut.us (Lane Beattie) tbeck@le.state.ut.us (Trisha Beck) rbecker@le.state.ut.us (Ralph Becker) cbennion@le.state.ut.us (Chad Bennion) Bigelow.Ron.WVC@Juno.com (Ron Bigelow) jbiskups@le.state.ut.us (Jackie Biskupski) Lblackha@le.state.ut.us (Leonard Blackham) dbourdea@le.state.ut.us (Duane Bourdeaux) dbowman@le.state.ut.us (DeMar Bowman) abradsha@le.state.ut.us (Afton Bradshaw) mbrown@le.state.ut.us (Mel Brown) kbryson@le.state.ut.us (Katherine Bryson) pbuckner@aol.com (Perry Buckner) jbuffmir@le.state.ut.us (Judy Buffmire) dbush@le.state.ut.us (Don Bush) cbuttars@le.state.ut.us (Craig Buttars) mcarlson@le.state.ut.us (Mary Carlson) bchard@utah-connections.com (Blake Chard) dcox@le.state.ut.us (David N. Cox) gcox@le.state.ut.us (Gary Cox) gcurtis@le.state.ut.us (Greg Curtis) gdavis@le.state.ut.us (Gene Davis) mdayton@le.state.ut.us (Margaret Dayton) mdillree@le.state.ut.us (Marda Dillree) mdmitric@le.state.ut.us (Mike Dmitrich) cduckwor@le.state.ut.us (Carl W. Duckworth) bevans@le.state.ut.us (Beverly Ann Evans) mevans@le.state.ut.us (Mont Evans) bferry@le.state.ut.us (Ben C. Ferry) ffife@le.state.ut.us (Fred J. Fife) lfrandse@le.state.ut.us (Lloyd Frandsen) kgarn@le.state.ut.us (Kevin Garn) dgladwel@le.state.ut.us (David Gladwell) bgoodfel@le.state.ut.us (Brent Goodfellow) jgowans@le.state.ut.us (James Gowans) khale@le.state.ut.us (Karen Hale) nhansen@le.state.ut.us (Neil A. Hansen) wharper@le.state.ut.us (Wayne Harper) thatch@le.state.ut.us (Thomas Hatch) phellewe@le.state.ut.us (Parley G. Hellewell) nhendric@le.state.ut.us (Neal Hendrickson) jhickman@le.state.ut.us (John Hickman) lhillyar@le.state.ut.us (Lyle Hillyard) dhogue@le.state.ut.us (Dave Hogue) kholdawa@le.state.ut.us (Kory M. Holdaway) bhollada@le.state.ut.us (Bryan Holladay) Showell@le.state.ut.us (Scott Howell) jhull@le.state.ut.us (Joseph Hull) diverson@le.state.ut.us (Dennis Iverson) bjohnson@le.state.ut.us (Bradley Johnson) kjohnson@le.state.ut.us (Keele Johnson) djones@le.state.ut.us (David Jones) ljones@le.state.ut.us (Lorin Jones) pjulande@le.state.ut.us (Paula F. Julander) bking@le.state.ut.us (Brad King) pknudson@le.state.ut.us (Peter C. Knudson) skoehn@le.state.ut.us (Susan Koehn) blockhar@le.state.ut.us (Becky Lockhart) amansell@le.state.ut.us (Al Mansell) emayne@le.state.ut.us (Ed Mayne) rmontgom@le.state.ut.us (Robert Montgomery) kmorgan@le.state.ut.us (Karen W. Morgan) rmuhlest@le.state.ut.us (Robert Muhlestein) jmurray@le.state.ut.us (Joseph Murray) lnelson@le.state.ut.us (Lowell Nelson) hnielson@le.state.ut.us (Howard Nielson) eolson@le.state.ut.us (Evan Olson) lpace@le.state.ut.us (Loraine Pace) mpeterso@le.state.ut.us (Millie Peterson) spoulton@le.state.ut.us (Steven Poulton) trowan@le.state.ut.us (Tammy Rowan) Csaunder@le.state.ut.us (Carl Saunders) jseitz@le.state.ut.us (Jack Seitz) Rshort@le.state.ut.us (Ray Short) lshurtli@le.state.ut.us (LaWanna ""Lou"" Shurtliff) richard.siddoway@m.k12.ut.us (Richard Siddoway) gsnow@le.state.ut.us (Gordon Snow) msnow@le.state.ut.us (Marlon O. Snow) tspencer@le.state.ut.us (Terry Spencer) dsteele@le.state.ut.us (David Steele) mstephen@le.state.ut.us (Martin Stephens) nstephen@le.state.ut.us (Nora Stephens) hstephen@le.state.ut.us (Howard Stephenson) mstyler@le.state.ut.us (Michael Styler) psuazo@le.state.ut.us (Pete Suazo) jswallow@le.state.ut.us (John Swallow) jtanner@le.state.ut.us (Jordan Tanner) mthrockmor@le.state.ut.us (Matt Throckmorton) atyler@cc.utah.edu (Lamont Tyler) dure@le.state.ut.us (David Ure) jvalenti@le.state.ut.us (John Valentine) mwaddoup@le.state.ut.us (Michael Waddoups) rwalsh@le.state.ut.us (Richard Walsh) gway@le.state.ut.us (Glenn Way) bwright@le.state.ut.us (Bill Wright) dzolman@le.state.ut.us (David Zolman) - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:51:52 -0700 From: "S. Thompson" Subject: Gun Suits http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2558122623-37f - ---------- - ---------- 06:20 PM ET 01/20/99 Survivor To Testify in Gun Trial Survivor To Testify in Gun Trial By TOM HAYS= Associated Press Writer= NEW YORK (AP) _ Weeks before Steven Fox was nearly killed, he watched a friend buy a small, black handgun out of the trunk of a blue Oldsmobile from a man who said he had just come from ``down south.'' About a month later, the friend accidentally shot Fox in the head with the illegal pistol, Fox testified Wednesday in a federal lawsuit accusing the firearms industry of negligently marketing handguns. The case has drawn comparisons to recent lawsuits against the tobacco industry. It's also viewed as a test case for several large cities that have sued or plan to sue gun makers. Fox, 19, is the sole survivor among seven shooting victims named in the class-action lawsuit. His testimony that the dealer ``said he just came back from down south'' was meant to bolster the central claim that the firearms industry is ``collectively liable'' for shootings. The industry oversupplies Southern states, which have lenient gun laws, knowing that the excess will end up on the black market in strict gun states like New York, the lawsuit says. Judge Jack Weinstein cautioned jurors that Fox's story about the illegal gun peddler was not evidence that the weapon _ which was not recovered _ came from the South. The more than three dozen defendants, including Smith & Wesson Corp. and Colt's Manufacturing Co., argue that blaming the industry for the illegal use of a legal product is unfair. Industry executives comply with a host of federal and local gun regulations, contract only with reputable distributors and supply markets based on legitimate demand, their lawyers said. Lawyers for the shooting victims' relatives cast them as underdogs in a battle against cold corporate interests. Fox said that his friend accidentally shot him while showing off the gun Nov. 14, 1994, in his New York City neighborhood. Fox said he has had to relearn how to walk, feed himself, even read and write. ``It's like I just forgot everything,'' he said. ``It's like it just spilled out of my head.'' - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 99 20:44:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Bishop may be in trouble for mixing partying and politicking Only non-voters can be paid lobbyists? - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 02:04:06 EST From: FreeUtah@aol.com To: lputah@qsicorp.com Subject: Bishop may be in trouble for mixing partying and politicking Gun-control group says GOP chairman may be guilty of felony The gun-control group pursuing vendetta, he says By Bob Bernick Jr. Deseret News political editor A local gun-control advocacy group says Utah Republican Party Chairman Rob Bishop could be guilty of a third-degree felony because he holds a top GOP job and is a paid lobbyist at the same time. Bishop says he has done nothing wrong. He accuses those making the charge against him, Utahns Against Gun Violence, of being out to get him because he lobbies for the Utah Shooting Sports Council, a major gun rights group that is a constant foe of Utahns Against Gun Violence. Bishop is considered a formidable lobbying foe - for several years in a row, attempts to tighten the state's concealed weapons permit law have failed in the Legislature - with the Utah Shooting Sports Council taking the lead in opposition to stricter gun control laws. "Yes, we are concerned" about Bishop's legal standing because he is a tough person to beat on gun issues at the Legislature, says William Nash, chairman of Utahns Against Gun Violence and author of a letter sent to Bishop and Republican leaders in the state outlining Bishop's possible legal problems. "We see (Bishop), with his influence and expertise, and former (House) speaker Mel Brown as the major obstacles against responsible gun legislation," Nash said Wednesday morning. Bishop is also a former House speaker. House Minority Leader Dave Jones, D-Salt Lake, is sponsoring a bill in the current session to ban all guns from churches, public schools, Olympic venues and private residences, if the property owners so wish - a measure sure to be controversial, once again. Nash says that Bishop should resign as party chairman or cease being a paid lobbyist. Nash gives Bishop and state GOP leaders until Friday to make up their minds and take some action, or, he writes, he will go public with his group's complaint. "I take that as a kind of blackmail," Bishop said Tuesday. Nash said he doesn't expect to hear from Bishop. Come Friday, Nash's group will make public their concerns and start notifying Bishop's lobbying clients and those Bishop is lobbying against. "We read the law to say that those who are paying (Bishop) to lobby are violating the law as well," and so could also be guilty of a third-degree felony. "Not only should the Utah Shooting Sports Council be concerned (they are employing Bishop), but the bankers should be concerned as well. For Mr. Bishop is lobbying for the credit unions" over the controversial issue of credit union/bank competition, said Nash. Bishop couldn't say exactly what he'd do, but added he doesn't believe he's violated any law - "certainly not the spirit of any law" - and he may seek changes in the current statutes to make that clear. Nash says in his letter that state law clearly says that no one may give money to a "public servant, party official or voter" in an effort to influence their action, opinion, recommendation or vote. The law also says that no public servant . . . party official, candidate or voter may solicit or accept any money from someone knowing that that person is trying to influence them. Since Bishop is a party official and, at the same time, accepts money as a paid lobbyist to push certain causes, it's clear he's taking money and is influenced altogether, says Nash. Hinting at the Olympic scandal and some legislators' problems, Nash writes: "At a time when there has been a discouragingly long stream of ethical, moral and legal wrongdoing by individuals who have been given a public trust, the Utah citizenry is not in the mood to countenance further actions by persons in official positions who are on the wrong side of the law." Bishop said if he is guilty under "a technicality" of the law (he believes the law was never meant to apply to a person who is both a party official and a lobbyist at the same time), then there are many others under a cloud also. He said several GOP county party officers also lobby the Legislature. In addition, Bishop said all 5,000 state GOP delegates are considered "party officials" under the party's bylaws. How many of them are paid to lobby the Legislature or local county and city officials on behalf of their businesses or trade associations he can't say, said Bishop. But Bishop's position is clear, says Nash. "This should be a simple matter of fairness: A company or an organization with a legislative position or agenda to pursue should not be able to "buy" the voice of an individual political party official such as Mr. Bishop," writes Nash. Being a lobbyist and party chairman is a "dual role (that) is precisely the type of behavior that the statute was designed to prohibit," says Nash. Bishop's term as GOP chairman ends this May. It's tradition in the Utah Republican Party that the top GOP elected officials seeking re-election in the next year get to recommend who the party chairman will be. In 2000, that will be Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, and GOP Gov. Mike Leavitt. Bishop says if they want him to serve another two years as party chairman, he'd seriously consider doing so if he also has GOP rank-and-file support. A high school AP history teacher by profession, Bishop also said he plans to maintain his part-time lobbying work. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 99 20:44:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: theadlanti-paramilitarytrainingstatute 1/3 - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:18:52 -0500 From: ralph@teaminfinity.com gopher://gopher.well.sf.ca.us/11s/Politics/activist.tools/how.to.win THE ADL ANTI-PARAMILITARY TRAINING STATUTE UPDATE - ------------------------------------------------- Due to the ADL's ANTI-PARAMILITARY TRAINING STATUTE, the Unorganized Militia is NOW ILLEGAL in at least 24 states of the union. Of course this is unconstitutional, but when has this ever stopped the commissars from locking people down and up? That is right, in case you did not know, the ADL, a foreign "Israeli" terrorist, NKVD/CHEKA/STASI/KGB offshoot, spying, free speech denying, propaganda and hate spewing platoon of goons, also CREATES STATUTORY LAW for YOU, in the USA both state and federal according to their own documents and what others research shows. The ADL is part of the secret Masonic B'nai B'rith cult, and is HQed @ 823 United Nations Plaza, New York, NY 10017. That's right, part of the UN, despite "Israel's" SCOFFING of NUMEROUS UN Resolutions against it. The silly fools in the UN actually believed that the UN applied to "Israel" too! What many do not realize is that this statute has effectively, albeit unconstitutionally, DESTROYED the LEGAL UNORGANIZED MILITIA and reduced all participants to FELONS in the TWENTY FOUR (24) US states where this heinous legislation has already passed as of 1995! If you doubt it, read on. The statute is provided below for one of the 24 states as well as the ADL template that was used to ramrod this vile poisonous "legislation" down our throats. Notice carefully in the statutes that you don't actually have to carry out an act of civil 'disobedience' to be convicted, you only need to have been training someone, or being taught in what could be construed as a technique that 'could' be used in an act of civil 'disobedience'. Also note that this is enough to stop many people from even considering associating with the constitutionally provided for unorganized militia, let alone private survivalist clubs, alas the purpose of this leaven laced 'genocidal' human life hating legislation. Do you think this will ever be used against the JDL? I should note that the JPFO [Jews for the Preservation for Firearms Ownership] and I both agree that the ADL is a great threat to all people including honorable Jews as well. In today's communique, you will see how the ADL has drafted and had passed THE ADL ANTI-PARAMILITARY TRAINING STATUTE in 24 States already. They targeted state legislatures to avoid federal constitutional objections and to include both trainers and trainees! I will provide one of the 24 states' statute that was implemented based on the ADL's "model" statute, by way of the ADL's infamous rabid pressure and blackmail techniques. Make no mistake, the ADL has singlehandedly done MASSIVE damage to your Constitutional Rights, and their actions may actually lead to MASSIVE bloodshed because of their success in disarming the American people, leaving them defenseless to the Commissars who will now be able to line us up like so many millions of Christians who were slaughtered at the hands of the atheist jewish Bolsheviks under Leon Trotsky [real name LEVI BRONSTEIN, from NY's East Side believe it or not] and Lenin [real name was Vladimir Ilich Israel Blanc Ulianoff], and the innocent jews sold out by jewish nazis. The following should be researched: http://204.107.208.2/~ralph/hitlerfounderofisrael.html I will also provide the ADL's template statute and the ADL's rationale and insider stategies for implementing this crushing legislation. You should also look up the "CIVIL 'DISOBEDIENCE' ACT", 18 U.S.C. 231 et seq. FIRST the ADL's TEMPLATE: ADL MODEL PARAMILITARY TRAINING STATUE - -------------------------------------- A. (1) Whoever teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing, or having reason to know or intending that same will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in furtherance or, a civil disorder; or (2) Whoever assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, intending to employ unlawfully the same for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder- Shall be fined not more than $_____ or imprisoned not more than ___ years or both. B. Nothing in this section shall make unlawful any act of any law enforcement officer which is performed in the lawful performance of his official duties. C. As used in this section: (1) The term "civil disorder" means any public disturbance involving acts of violence by assemblages of three or more persons, which causes an immediate danger of or results in damage or injury to the property or person of any other individual. (2) The term "firearm" means any weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive; or the frame or receiver of any such weapon. (3) The term "explosive or incendiary device" means (a) dynamite and all other forms of high explosives, (b) any explosive bomb, grenade, missle, or similar device, and (c) any incendiary bomb or grenade, fire bomb, or similar device, including any device which (i) consists or or includes a breakable contianer including a flammable liquid or compound, and a wick composed or any material which, when ignited, is capable of igniting such flammable liquid or compound, and (ii) can be carried or thrown by one individual acting alone. (4) The term "law enforcement officer" means any officer or employee of the United States, any state, any political subdivision of a state, or the District of Columbia, and such term shall specifically include, but shall not be limited to, members of the National Guard, as defined in section 101(9) of title 10, United States Code, members of the organized militia of any state of territory of the United States, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the District of Columbia, not included within the definition of National Guard as defined by such section 101(9), and members of the Armed Forces of the United States. [ Continued In Next Message... ] - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 99 20:44:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: theadlanti-paramilitarytrainingstatute 2/3 [ ...Continued From Previous Message ] MONTANA's IMPLEMENTATION of the ADL LEGISLATION: [notice the exception for LABOR UNIONS/Communists, so it is ok for the Communists to teach each other how to and train to beat up, blow up, mow down and intimidate non-union workers? also there is an exception for nonviolent civil 'disobedience', so as long as you lick boots, you are ok, FOR NOW!] [note not all labor unions are necessarily communist] MT ST 45-8-109 MCA 45-8-109 MONTANA CODE ANNOTATED TITLE 45. CRIMES CHAPTER 8. OFFENCES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER PART 1. CONDUCT DISRUPTIVE OF PUBLIC ORDER Current through 1993 Session, Ch. 642 45-8-109. Prohibited activities - penalties - exceptions. (1) A person is guilty of a crime if, with one or more other persons, he purposely of knowingly assembles for the purpose of training in, instructing in the use of, or practicing with any technique or means capable of causing property damage, bodily injury, or death, with the purpose of employing the training, instruction, or practice in a civil disorder. (2) A person convicted of violating the provisions of subsection (1) is guilty of a felony and shall be imprisoned in the state prison for a period not to exceed 10 years or be fined not to exceed $50,000, or both. (3) Subsection (1) does not prohibit: (a) an act protected pursuant to Article II of the Montana constitution; (b) an act of a governmental military force; (c) an act of a peace officer performed in the lawful performance of the officer's duties; (d) an authorized activity of the department of fish, wildlife, and parks; the department of corrections and human services; a law enforcement agency; or the law enforcement academy; (e) training in nonviolent civil disobedience tecniques; (f) lawful self-defense or defense of others or an activity intended to teach or practice self-defense or self-defense techniques; or (g) a facility, program, or lawful activity related to firearms instruction or training intended to teach the safe handling and use of firearms or activities or sports related to the recreational use or possession of firearms. (4) Section 45-8-107 through 45-8-109 do not apply to an employer or employees involved in a labor dispute. END of MONTANA DOCUMENT If you obtain the report below you will see the statutes passed in the other states. Of note, New York's implementation is particulary amusing as it exempts paramilitary organizations formed and operating without interuption since April 23, 1883! Also organized honorably discharged veterans may assemble with arms ONLY on DEWEY DAY and Memorial Day as long as they are accompanied by the Organized Militia and/or the US Armed Forces. DEWEY DAY!? May 1st. Another COMMUNIST EXCEPTION!!! The ADL Anti-Paramilitary Training Statute: A Response to Domestic Terrorism 1995, 57 pages, $5.00 Send us your: 1.Name 2.Mailing Address 3.Name of Publication 4.Check or Money Order (payable to Anti-Defamation League) Mail to Anti-Defamation League Dept. MRC-W 823 United Nations Plaza New York, NY 10017 The phenomenon of domestic terrorism, dramatically and tragically seared on America's consciousness by the destruction [in April 1995] of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City, is sadly not new. The Anti-Defamation League has monitored the activities of hate groups in America for over 80 years, and has looked for ways to counteract the threat they pose. One ADL strategy has been to encourage states to enact anti-paramilitary training statutes, which prohibit systematic instruction in exercises comparable to military training, including the use of advanced weaponry, for the purpose of fostering civil disorder. Twenty-four states have now enacted such legislation based on or similar to a model ADL initially proposed more than a decade ago. In light of the recent tragedy in Oklahoma, which has in particular highlighted the threat posed by the militia movement, ADL is publishing this new report on our anti-paramilitary training legislation. We believe this legislation can play a significant role in deterring future acts of domestic terrorism, and encourage all those states which do not presently have such laws to enact them expeditiously. The hate groups that the ADL statute targets are characterized by a propensity for lawlessness and violence. Recent events reveal that the most extreme of them regard violence as necessary in the face of what they perceive to be impending Federal tyranny. Many of these groups admit that they are seeking to establish the groundwork for militant resistance not only to gun control laws, but more broadly to the Federal government and its law enforcement agencies. Some groups have already gone so far as to conduct paramilitary training with organized instruction in weapons handling and combat tactics. According to the doctrine of these extremists, the Federal government is the enemy, an enemy engaged in expanding its authoritarian control and planning warfare against its citizenry. The training is interspersed with anti-government and conspiracy-laden propaganda stressing the need to be armed and ready for an impending war perpetrated by the Federal government. [ Continued In Next Message... ] - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 99 20:44:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: theadlanti-paramilitarytrainingstatute 3/3 [ ...Continued From Previous Message ] In an October 1980 publication, ADL documented the proliferation of paramilitary training camps then being operated by the Ku Klux Klan and other racist groups in clandestine training centers across the country, including the states of Alabama, California, Connecticut, Illinois, North Carolina and Texas. The report disclosed that training being provided at these camps was sophisticated and rigorous. In Texas, for example, the training included tactical maneuvers, military drills, map reading and weapons proficiency. [Sounds a lot like the Boy Scouts to me. -- Scott] Louis Beam, then a Grand Dragon of the Texas KKK, boasted that Klan paramilitary training in Texas was more rigorous than that given to U.S. Army soldiers stationed at Fort Hood. Some of these activities were labeled by their sponsors as "defense" or "survival" training courses. Regardless of the label applied, it was clear that armed racists, pathological enemies of blacks, Jews, immigrants, and other minority groups, were engaged in paramilitary training for guerilla warfare against their alleged adversaries. It was the activities described in this report which inspired the ADL Legal Affairs Department to draft model state legislation which would make it illegal to operate such camps. In attempting to provide a legislative solution to this problem, the League drafted a model bill which imposes criminal penalties for weapons instructors and participants in paramilitary training camps. (See Appendix A) In the fall of 1986, ADL issued a report providing a broad introduction to the model anti- paramilitary training statute. At the time, the League cited 13 states that had adopted the model statute or a close facsimile. To date, 24 states have anti-paramilitary training statutes on the books. While paramilitary training by extremist groups was less prevalent in the late 1980s, more recently the proliferation of armed militias has been alarming. Last fall, ADL published a report entitled "Armed & Dangerous: Militias Take Aim At The Federal Government" which documented the growth of such militias throughout the country. The report identified militia activity in the following states: Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio and Virginia. In the intervening time period, the number of states with militia activity has reached 27 and continues to grow. These militias are characterized by vigilant resistance to gun control laws and government "overreaching." Moreover, individuals with histories of racial and religious bigotry are involved in some militias, even in leadership positions. In the Northwest, for example, militia leader John Trochmann has been a featured speaker at an annual Aryan Nations gathering. Investigations into the militias have uncovered stockpiling of lethal weaponry. In addition, many of the militias include paramilitary training as a component of their larger mission. In Michigan, for instance, a brigade of the Northern Michigan Regional Militia established in April 1994 has been conducting training exercises twice a month, reportedly with Chinese SKS semi-automatic assault rifles and other weapons. In March 1995, a member of the "freemen" movement was sentenced by a Roundup, Montana, judge to a ten-year prison term for felonious acts of terrorism in connection with his movement-related activities. Followers of this anti-tax movement argue that they are being deprived of their rights by the Federal government and prefer to live by their own common law court system. John Trochmann, the aforementioned leader of the Militia of Montana, allegedly traveled with five of his followers to Roundup, armed with an arsenal of weapons. "I believe the men were here to attempt to capture or kill us," Musselshell County Attorney John Bohlman told a local reporter. John Trochmann and his five cohorts were arrested, and a search of their vehicles revealed a collection of handguns, rifles, communications equipment, and thousands of rounds of ammunition. Anti-paramilitary training statutes provide law enforcement with another tool that could potentially be used effectively against such groups. They have worked well in the past: a case in point was the reaction of the Christian Patriots Defense League (CPDL), an extremist survivalist group which, beginning in 1979, held propaganda-filled "freedom festivals" where over 1,000 people engaged in military-style field maneuvers and attended some 55 classes, receiving instruction in, among other subjects, "Guns and Reloading," "Demolition and Camouflage," "Anti-Aircraft and Anti-Tank," and "Knife Fighting." In response to Illinois's passage of an anti-paramilitary training statute, the CPDL moved the festival to Kicking, Missouri. Missouri then passed its anti- paramilitary training law, prompting CPDL director John Harrell to warn invitees about the new law and instructing them not to bring their firearms to the camp. Many extremists apparently stayed away from the meeting for this reason. In Florida, shortly after the enactment of the statute, five members of the United Klans of America were arrested by the St. Petersburg Police Department and the Pinellas County Sheriff's office and charged with planning and training for terrorist acts against minorities. One year later, two pleaded guilty and two were convicted by a jury for violating Florida's anti-paramilitary training statute. The goal of the group, according to a police informant, was to incite blacks to riot so that whites would turn to the Klan for leadership. In addition to training with guns intended to be used against minorities, members of the group were instructed in the making of incendiary devices. The statute helped prevent a dangerous situation from escalating into the kind of violence which could easily have led to the loss of innocent life. In North Carolina, violating a Federal court order not to operate an illegal paramilitary organization led to the conviction of the leader of the White Patriot Party (WPP), an armed racist gang. The court order settling a class action civil suit prohibited WPP leader Glenn Miller and his organization from harassing blacks and from violating the state's anti-paramilitary training statute, also based on the ADL model legislation. During a jury trial held in Federal district court in Raleigh, witnesses reported that Miller's group stockpiled weapons and conducted maneuvers for an eventual attempt to overthrow the U.S. government and to create a racist state. Miller was sentenced to six months in prison and three years probation. In light of recent events involving the "militia movement," the usefulness of anti-paramilitary training statutes for law enforcement agencies could not be more apparent. - ---------- END of ADL REPORT [The unorganized Militia is LEGAL according to the US CODE, see US CODE TITLE 10 Section 311 http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.html] US CODE TITLE 10 Section 311 311. Militia: composition and classes http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.html - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #121 ***********************************