From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #146 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Wednesday, July 21 1999 Volume 02 : Number 146 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:19:31 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Sue The Mayors Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:29:40 -0600 Received: from kendaco.telebyte.com by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA23006; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:09:12 -0600 Received: (from petidomo@localhost) by kendaco.telebyte.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA30826; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:17:18 -0700 Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by kendaco.telebyte.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30823 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:17:18 -0700 Received: from oemcomputer (sdn-ar-003fltampP244.dialsprint.net [158.252.77.6]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA07917; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000801bece2d$919ba760$064dfc9e@oemcomputer> From: "Charles Hoskinson" To: "Membercouncil" Subject: Sue The Mayors Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:17:50 -0400 Reply-To: NRA-ILA-EVC@kendaco.telebyte.com Sender: NRA-ILA-EVC-owner@kendaco.telebyte.com Precedence: list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_FEA84937.86E78949" - --=_FEA84937.86E78949 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Note the following link: How would it be if we, as a group, filed a federal civil rights violation against Buckhorn and with whomever he conspired to sue the gun manufacturers? They are, after all, interfering with the exercise of a Constitutional right. http://www.amfire.com/helpguns.html Chuck Hoskinson "US Army, Retired ... and still serving proudly" - --=_FEA84937.86E78949 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Sue The Mayors.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.amfire.com/helpguns.html [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.amfire.com/helpguns.html Modified=00089E072DCEBE0167 - --=_FEA84937.86E78949-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 99 09:30:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Re: FW: Desnews on Legislative Gun Movements. - ----- Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:34:21 -0600 From: "Jim Dexter" To: lputah@qsicorp.com Subject: FW: Desnews on Legislative Gun Movements. Please let members of the Judiciary Committee know you oppose a special session as well as additional gun control legislation! A list of committee members follows the article. And, of course, if you can attend next week's meeting, Wednesday, July 21, 1999, 2 PM, Room 403, State Capitol, please do so! - ------------------------------------ Wednesday, July 14, 1999 Leavitt's gun ideas make slight headway Legislative panel to vote on 3 bills, but . . . ? By Bob Bernick Jr. Deseret News political editor Gov. Mike Leavitt's gun violence and school safety proposals will at least get a formal vote in one legislative committee. But the likelihood of a special legislative session on guns in October appears doubtful, if talk Tuesday afternoon in the Legislature's Judiciary Committee is any indication. When committee members questioned the need to deal with guns in special session, Senate Majority Leader Lyle Hillyard stepped in to salvage at least a committee vote next week on Leavitt's ideas for restricting guns in schools, to the mentally ill and to those with violent misdemeanor convictions? "Yep. That's what I'm doing," Hillyard, R-Logan, said after the confusing three-hour meeting. He said he would draft bills on the three specific areas that Leavitt, also a Republican, told lawmakers could be solved quickly, if not easily, in a special session. Those bills will be presented at a committee hearing during next week's legislative interim study day. But what happens then is unknown. At least for now. "I'm presenting them. And I think I can make a good argument for each. But some (of the bills) may be so terrible that I'll be voting against them myself," Hillyard said. House Republicans on the joint House/Senate committee were moving toward a vote not to even have a special session on guns when Hillyard read the mood and intervened, asking members to allow him to draft "global" bills on several issues. As the meeting dragged on and specific issues were taken off the table for debate, Hillyard said he was going to present bills on the issues Leavitt wanted considered. "At least he gets that," Hillyard said later. The gun control debate was first ignited after the Legislature in 1995 made it easier to obtain a concealed weapons permit. The issue flared again this year in the wake of two fatal shootings in Salt Lake City and the massacre at Columbine High School in Colorado. At Tuesday's meeting, one after another conservative Republican on the committee said they didn't see the need or the wisdom of a special session on guns. "We're in a fish bowl on this" issue, said Rep. Glen Way, R-Spanish Fork. "Does the governor think we're dumb sheep getting marching orders" on gun matters? "For cryin' out loud, we have a say" on whether a session is called or not. On the mentally ill possessing guns: "I think we need to do something. . . . But in a special session?" questioned House Majority Whip Dave Ure, R-Kamas, about the mentally ill possessing guns. "Who can tell me how we define someone who is mentally ill? Some would say we (legislators) are all mentally ill for bein' here." On banning legally permitted concealed weapon holders from taking their guns in schools: "We need to enforce the current law on taking guns in schools" by students, Ure said. "I think (some school administrators) are being a good boy to Johnny who is bringing a heater." House Minority Leader Dave Jones, D-Salt Lake -- a leader in the gun-control fight -- brought one of his proposed bills to the committee. Although not a committee member, Jones distributed the bill and asked committee members to at least read it. He left without making further comment. Jones said his bill would require that violent misdemeanor convictions be included on gun-buying background checks, that all gun sales at gun shows and other such venues come with a background check (not all do now) and that people adjudicated mentally ill or who have used an insanity plea as a defense in a criminal trial be denied gun purchases. Earlier in the day, Jones told the Deseret News that he fully expects GOP legislators -- a majority in the House and Senate -- to "stall" the gun debate, avoiding a special session on the matter if possible. The great frustration of lawmakers, expressed again and again Tuesday, is that they believe there is little they can do that will affect gun violence or school safety. The white supremacist who shot people last week in Chicago tried to buy a gun from a dealer, but the background check showed previous criminal convictions, so he was denied. "He went out on the street and bought one anyway. And anyone can do that," Hillyard said. COMMITTEE MEMBERS Sen. Terry Spencer, Senate Chair Rep. A. Lamont Tyler, House Chair Sen. Lyle W. Hillyard Sen. David H. Steele Sen. Pete Suazo Rep. Patrice M. Arent Rep. Chad E. Bennion Rep. Afton B. Bradshaw Rep. Katherine M. Bryson Rep. Gary F. Cox Rep. Greg J. Curtis Rep. David L. Gladwell Rep. Neal B. Hendrickson Rep. J. W. "Bill" Hickman Rep. LaWanna "Lou" Shurtliff Rep. Martin R. Stephens Rep. John E. Swallow Rep. David Ure Rep. Glenn L. Way Contact info can be found by going to www.le.state.ut.us and clicking on either "House" or "Senate". - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:52:53 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Fw: California plans to confiscate guns Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:35:22 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA00596; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:14:43 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA10395 for noban-presents; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:24:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swarm.mosquitonet.com (swarm.mosquitonet.com [206.129.11.16]) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10387 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:24:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bugbox (ppp170.fai.mosquitonet.com [206.129.11.170]) by swarm.mosquitonet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA13189 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 11:24:15 -0800 Message-ID: <000601becef7$a8a0b160$aa0b81ce@bugbox> From: "McGeheeZone.com" To: "NoBan List" Subject: Fw: California plans to confiscate guns Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 11:24:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-noban@mainstream.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: noban@mainstream.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Williams To: Amelu Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 10:49 AM Subject: California plans to confiscate guns CALIFORNIA ANTI-GUN ATTORNEY GENERAL BILL LOCKYER'S SECRET PLANS TO CONFISCATE FIREARMS UNCOVERED News/Current Events Extended News Free Republic Source: www.gunowners.com / Bob Evans Vs Tom for 2000 Published: 7/14/99 Author: Bob Evans Posted on 07/15/1999 07:47:36 PDT by Bob Evans Subj: CA: Confiscation Plans Date: 7/13/99 8:26:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time From: goamail@gunowners.org (Gun Owners of America) Reply-to: goamail@gunowners.org (Gun Owners of America) To: goamail@gunowners.org ANTI-GUN ATTORNEY GENERAL BILL LOCKYER'S SECRET PLANS TO CONFISCATE FIREARMS UNCOVERED Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151 Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408 http://www.gunowners.org Gun Owners Of California 10100 Fair Oaks Blvd Suite 1 Fair Oaks, CA 95628 916-967-4970 http://www.gunownersca.com gunownca@gunownersca.com >>Please direct all questions to GOC.<< Pro-gun groups, including Gun Owners of California, have obtained copies of documents which outlined the Attorney General's plan to confiscate privately owned firearms from citizens who registered their firearms according to former Attorney General Dan Lungren's instructions. The documents include: * A Department of Justice Information Bulletin addressed to "ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES" entitled "RELINQUISHMENT OF ASSAULT WEAPONS" and dated June 11, 1999, signed by Doug Smith, Chief of the Bureau of Criminal Information and Analysis for Bill Lockyer, A.G., * A letter on Attorney General Bill Lockyer's stationary, entitled "NOTICE TO ALL PERSONS WHO ATTEMPED TO REGISTER AN ASSUALT WEAPON IN CALIFORNIA AFTER MARCH 30, 1992", dated June 8,1999, signed by Mike Broderick, Assistant Chief of the Bureau of Criminal Information and Analysis for Bill Lockyer, A.G. * A form entitled "LIST OF ASSAULT WEAPONS SUBJECT TO RELINQUISHMENT" which will be sent to all gun owners listing the "illegal assault weapons" and instructions for relinquishment and a request for a refund of the REGISTRATION FEE only! This is what "law abiding" gun owners get for trying to do the right thing by registering their guns according to Attorney General Dan Lungren's instructions. This proves the point that the ultimate goal of registration is to facilitate CONFISCATION! Of course, now that the documents were inadvertently leaked, the Department of Justice is denying that they plan to confiscate anything and that these documents were merely "drafts" and "for discussion only" and that they have no plans to implement it at this time. All law abiding gun owners should feel free to register their outrage by calling Governor Gray Davis and Attorney General Bill Lockyer. As I promised all of you after last years election, I will be soon announcing my return engagement against our loved Congressman Tom Lantos. This will be my second run for this office , and it will prove secessful ...... with your help. Sincerely. Bob Evans 340 Foerster St. SF, CA 94112 415-334-9923 1 Posted on 07/15/1999 07:47:36 PDT by Bob Evans (bob0159@pacbell.net) - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 99 21:50:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: FW: Provo Herald Gun Control Poll - ----- Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:09:32 -0600 To: lputah@qsicorp.com From: "Jim Dexter" - ---------- Vote against gun control! The following was forwarded by Utah State Senator Howard Stephenson (R-Draper): The Provo Herald has a poll asking if concealed weapons should be allowed in schools. It's currently running 80-20 in opposition. I wonder if the question had been reworded to ask, "Should the police and those passing an FBI check be prohibited from carrying concealed weapons in schools?", would the results be different? Their address is: http://www.heraldextra.com/dh/fppoll.nsf/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 99 22:19:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: FW: Fwd: Connecticut Police Given Power to Confiscate Weapons! - ----- Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:15:05 -0600 From: "Jim Dexter" To: lputah@qsicorp.com Subject: FW: Fwd: Connecticut Police Given Power to Confiscate Weapons! Kick a cat in Connecticut and they'll take your guns. - ---------- What this article does NOT mention is that the NRA SUPPORTED this new law! Expect to see NRA support for a similar bill in Utah to deal with the "mentally ill" so-called "problem". WALLINGFORD, Connecticut -- Some Connecticut gun enthusiasts are up in arms about a new law signed this week by Gov. John Rowland that gives police the right to seize firearms from the home of a person whom authorities believe may be considering a criminal act. It's considered to be the first law in the nation that allows confiscation of a gun before the owner commits an act of violence. "For them just to come in and blatantly want to take your guns, I believe it's wrong," said one gun owner at the Blue Trail gun range. "The Constitution is being broken apart, piece by piece," said another opponent of the new law. Police would have to show probable cause that the gun owner posed an imminent risk. Among the factors to be considered by the judge issuing the gun seizure warrant: Threats or acts of violence, cruelty to animals, and drug or alcohol abuse. Law passed after shootings at lottery office Connecticut passed the law after the shootings deaths of four people at the state's lottery headquarters last year by one employee whose behavior had worried co-workers. "It gives police the authority when it's clear that someone's become dangerous -- and you know they have guns -- to go in and take the guns before a tragedy takes place," said Rep. Michael Lawler. But challenges are expected on the constitutionality of the law. Some opponents call it the 'turn in your neighbor' law. They fear some people might attempt to use the law to try to resolve petty disputes or to impose their views about guns on their neighbors. Some critics, such as gun lobbyist Bob Crook, say there are already too many gun laws on the books that are not enforced. But he says that in this case, the intent, at least, is on target. "If the law is enforced, and it's enforced adequately, then what we've done is taken a firearm or firearms away from a person who's mentally disturbed and who shouldn't have them to begin with," said Crook. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 99 10:08:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Utahns head for gun vote http://www.desnews.com/dn/print/1,1442,100011391,00.html Deseret News, Friday, July 16, 1999, 12:00 AM MDT Utahns head for a gun vote Coalition keeps vow for a ballot initiative By Lucinda Dillon Deseret News staff writer A growing coalition of educators, religious officials and community leaders have made good on their promise to take the emotional gun issue to voters. Lawmakers and Gov. Mike Leavitt still have not decided if or how they will address the issue of gun control in a special fall session of the Legislature. No matter, says a coalition that includes the Catholic Diocese of Salt Lake City, Episcopal Diocese, Utahns Against Gun Violence, Utah Hospital Association, Utah Children, Utah Pediatrics Association and the Utah Education Association. On Friday, the coalition -- bolstered by the recent addition to its ranks of higher education's Utah Board of Regents -- finished its first draft of a ballot initiative that would allow guns, including those carried by holders of concealed-weapons permits, to be banned from schools, churches, hospitals and colleges. The initiative is a direct result of the Legislature's "failure to follow the will of the people," said Bill Nash, a member of the coalition and head of Utahns Against Gun Violence. In the past two weeks, Linda Plouzek, legislative vice president for the PTA, has received eight or 10 calls -- from school board officials to individual citizens -- who want to be involved. "They feel like the time is right because of the safety issue," she said. Harden Eyring, executive assistant to Cecelia H. Foxley, commissioner of the Utah System of Higher Education, represents the regents, the coalition's newest participant. Eyring, who is in charge of policies and procedures for the higher education system, attended a coalition meeting Tuesday. At its June 4 meeting, the regents reaffirmed their long-standing, no-guns-on campus position. Higher education administrators started talking with the coalition shortly after. "We reached an agreement that we would join in the effort," he said. Higher education's formal support and involvement adds a formidable wallop to the ballot efforts. Nine public colleges and universities and one private, Brigham Young University, are included in the proposal. "It's a big organization and indeed our sense is that the feelings are quite strong on the campuses -- just as they are in the public at-large - -- in support of this initiative." But Elwood Powell, chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council, says the initiative is driven by a minority of Utahns. "There is a vocal part of the population that believes this is neither necessary nor wanted." And if the initiative includes more than public schools, it will run into trouble, he said. "If they want to sweep in colleges and universities, they're going to have a real fight on that." People feel differently about removing guns from colleges than they do about banning guns in public schools, Powell said, because the students are adults and the environment can be more threatening. Still, support for the coalition has continued to grow. New people attend each meeting of the coalition. A group of women in their 70s who meet monthly to talk about various issues attended. Pediatricians, emergency room officials and victims of gun violence ll have taken part. The broad feedback has been invaluable, she said. The group will work out wording of the initiative in a meeting Monday so the language is simple for voters at the ballot. "I feel good about the direction it's going," Plouzek said. Once the initiative is finalized and submitted, members of the coalition must set about gathering nearly 70,000 signatures that will earn the initiative consideration at the ballot box. "We've got such a broad-based group involved in the process -- we're really expecting a lot of organizations to help," Plouzek said. By state law, the signatures must come from 20 of the state's 29 counties, in order to show broad support for the idea. Plouzek has met with Leavitt, House Speaker Marty Stephens, R-Farr West, and Senate President Lane Beattie, R-West Bountiful. Efforts by the governor and House Minority Leader Dave Jones, D-Salt Lake City, to change laws have been stymied by the GOP-dominated House, whose members believe a special session on guns is unnecessary. Stephens has suggested an option could be avoiding the petition drive and have the Legislature put the question to Utah voters as a referendum in 2000. The coalition hopes to deliver its draft initiative to Stephens prior to the interim meetings of the Utah Legislature Wednesday, she said. The communication is still open (with lawmakers)," Plouzek said. "Ideally, this could be addressed in the special session, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen." The growing support for the coalition is no surprise to Plouzek. It mirrors state polls that show the vast majority of Utahns want guns out of their schools and churches. "What is surprising to me is that this hasn't been addressed before this," she said. "For our children and for our safety, we have to take a stand." The group has received a couple of letters from writers concerned about the coalition's actions. But the initiative was born in broad public sentiment and in the voices of 146,000 PTA members in Utah. PTA takes its direction from 650 local "units" located throughout the state. Copyright 1999, Deseret News Publishing Corp. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 99 17:51:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: FW: Firearms alert! WEDNESDAY! - ----- Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:16:39 -0600 From: "Jim Dexter" To: lputah@qsicorp.com Subject: FW: Firearms alert! WEDNESDAY! Please attend if you can. - ---------- The final meeting of the Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice interim committee will be held this WEDNESDAY, JULY 21, at 2 PM. This committee will then make its final recommendations to Gov. Leavitt regarding a special session and/or the "need" for additional gun control. While this should be reason enough to attend the meeting, there's an extra incentive: Prof. John Lott, Jr. of the University of Chicago, author of the landmark study showing that concealed carry reduces violent crime and also of the book _More Guns, Less Crime_ will be testifying at the committee hearing. According to today's Wall Street Journal, "The number of U.S. violent crimes fell 7% to 8.1 million last year from 1997, the Justice Department said. The decline continues a trend that began in 1994 and the violent-crime rate, down 27% since 1993, is now the lowest since it began to be tracked in 1973." While these numbers do not _prove_ that the dramatic increase in concealed carry has led to a decrease in violent crime, they do refute the claims of gun-grabbers that "all those evil guns" are causing an epidemic of crime. (Of course, Prof. Lott's work _does_ show a correlation between concealed carry and a decrease in violent crime!) The agenda for the meeting follows: AGENDA LAW ENFORCEMENT AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE INTERIM COMMITTEE Wednesday, July 21, 1999 - 2:00 p.m. - Room 416 Utah State Capitol 1. Committee Business Approval of minutes of the June 16, 1999 meeting 2. Youth Weapons Violations at School Verne Larsen, Safe and Drug-Free Schools Coordinator, State Office of Education Captain Bob Lavin, Granite School District Police Department Chase Rogers, Director of Plans and Security, Davis School District Mike Christensen, Chief, Juvenile Division, Salt Lake District Attorney's Office Ray Wahl, Juvenile Court Administrator, Administrative Office of the Courts 3. Effects of Gun Control on Crime Dr. John R. Lott, Jr., Ph.D., School of Law, University of Chicago 4. Committee Discussion and Recommendations for Report on Gun Violence Committee Members 5. Public Safety Fee Establishment Process John Massey, Legislative Fiscal Analyst, Office of the Legislative Fiscal Analyst Chyleen A. Arbon, Research Analyst, Office of Legislative Research and General Counsel Herb Katz, Director of Criminal Investigations And Technical Services, Department of Public Safety 6. Other Items / Adjourn PLEASE CONTACT MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE! Let them know that you OPPOSE a special session and that you oppose more oppression of law-abiding gun owners! The following list of committee members was provided by USSC. I have not cross-checked it for errors. Members: Joint Law Enforcement Committee (6/99) Michael Waddoups, (R) Dist 6, SL: Co-Chairman (H) 801-967-0225 (W) 801-355-1136 Fax: n/listed E-mail: mwaddoup@le.state.ut.us Blake Chard, (R) Dist 15, Davis Co: Co-Chairman (H) 801-773-7474 FAX: 801-773-0709 E-mail: bchard@le.state.ut.us Paula Julander, (D) Dist 1, SL, Member (H) 801-363-0868 801-929-6019 FAX: n/listed E-mail: pjulande@le.state.ut.us Trisha Beck, (D) Dist 48, SL, Member (H) 801-572-2325 FAX: 801-572-9347 E-mail: tbeck@le.state.ut.us Duane Bourdeaux, (D) Dist 23, SL, Member (H) 801-596-8784 (W) 801-322-4411, or596-9081 FAX: 801-322-4435 E-mail: dbourdea@le.state.ut.us DeMar Bowman, (R), Dist 72, Beaver/Iron, Member (H) 435-586-8174 E-mail: dbowman@le.state.ut.us Perry Buckner, (D) Dist 42, SL, Member (H) 801-964-8215 (W) 801-856-6754 E-mail: pbuckner@le.state.ut.us David Hogue, (R) Dist 52, SL, Member (H) 801-254-1668 (W) 801-253-7586 FAX: 801-253-7586 E-mail: dhogue@le.state.ut.us Susan Koehn, (R) Dist 18, Davis, Member Hm/Office: 801-296-1761 E-mail: skoehn@le.state.ut.us Carl Saunders, (R) Dist 11, Davis/Weber, Member (H) 801-476-1110 (W) 801-476-7070 Mobile: 801-547-5510 E-mail: csaunder@le.state.ut.us Marlon Snow, (R) Dist 58, Utah, Member (H) 801-224-6163 (W) 801-486-7121 or 722-4162 E-mail: gsnow@le.state.ut.us Nora Stephens, (R) Dist 13, Davis, Member (H) 801-825-3792 801-731-5346 FAX: 801-825-3792 E-mail: nstephen@le.state.ut.us THANKS! I hope to see as many of you as possible Wednesday! - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 99 10:35:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: FW: GOUtah! Alert #21- 19 July 1999 - ----- Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:19:07 -0600 From: "Jim Dexter" To: lputah@qsicorp.com Subject: FW: GOUtah! Alert #21- 19 July 1999 Gun Owners of Utah Utah's Uncompromising, Independent Gun Rights Network. No Compromise. No Retreat. No Surrender. Not Now. Not Ever. Visit our website at www.slpsa.org/goutah! GOUtah! Alert #21- 19 July 1999 Today's Maxim of Liberty: "Under the 'New Cultural Order,' of thinking, common men aren't trusted to exercise what we used to consider common freedoms." - -- Charlton Heston, NRA President NRA President's Column, March 1999 If you wish to continue to receive this information under the GOUtah! banner, you need to do nothing. If you wish to be added to or taken off the GOUtah! list, please log onto our website at www.slpsa.org/goutah! or send an e-mail to GOUtah3006@aol.com or send a fax to (801) 944-9937 asking to be added to or removed from the GOUtah! list. If you wish to forward or share this copyrighted information with others, you are welcome to do so, on the condition that you pass along the entire document intact and unmodified, and that GOUtah! is clearly indicated as the original source of the material, unless otherwise noted. Leavitt's Gun Control Proposals in Trouble, but Your Immediate Action is Needed to Stop Special Session! Remember to Attend Joint Interim Committee Hearings - 2:00PM on Wednesday, 21 July at State Capitol! Professor John Lott Scheduled to Testify on CCW Issues! The Interim Committees of interest on Gun Control issues will be the Education Committee, the Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee and the Judiciary Committee. All Interim Committees meet at the Utah State Capitol in Salt Lake City. Please make plans to attend. The Committee room assignments and agendas are posted on the Third Floor bulletin board next to the House of Representatives. This information is also available on the Legislature's website at: www.le.state.ut.us The Utah print and broadcast media is widely reporting information indicating that Gov. Leavitt's gun control proposals are now in trouble, and facing increasing resistance from GOP legislators. Your earlier efforts are having a positive impact. YOU MUST KEEP UP THE PRESSURE TO PREVENT A SPECIAL SESSION. Contact your Utah House and Senate members again today. Ask them to continue to hold firm against any further restrictions of your gun rights. You should make the following points in the gun control proposals before the Utah legislature. 1: A special legislative session is neither needed nor warranted. 2: A Referendum either by citizen petition or by Legislative bill is neither needed nor warranted. The Utah Constitution is specific that the Legislature has responsibility for Utah gun laws, not the Governor, the media, the PTA, the teacher's union, or a religious institution. 3: Establishment of a two-level permit system takes Utah gun owners right back to the abusive DPS/BCI 'proving need' situation we so long endured before earning 'shall issue' CCW legislation in 1995. The life of every Utah citizen has equal value. CCW permit holders are not second class citizens, and we will not be treated as such! 4: Remind Legislators them that it was Governor Leavitt who opened this political can of worms and dumped it in their laps. They should scoop the worms back up and return them to Governor Leavitt and let him deal with it, rather than letting the Legislature take the heat for this unpopular idea. 4: Make it clear to Legislators that you will be watching their votes and their statements on this issue carefully, and you will be very active in party political activities as a delegate and in informing and organizing voters in their districts in the next election. Important Utah Legislative Contacts: Rep. Marty Stephens, 3159 N. Higley Rd, Farr West, UT 84404, (801) 731-5346 Res, (801) 538-1930 Off, (801) 594-8229 Fax. Email: mstephen@le.state.ut.us Sen. Lane Beattie, 319 State Capitol, SLC, UT, 84114, (801) 292-7406 Res, (801) 538-1400 Off, (801) 538-1414 Fax, Email: lbeattie@le.state.ut.us Gov. Mike Leavitt, State Capitol, SLC, UT 84114, (801) 538-1000, Email: gov_leavitt@state.ut.us GOUtah! Gun Rights (and Wrongs) Quote Watch "It's a Bill of Rights, not Suggestions." - -- As seen on a t-shirt being worn by Utah ACLU Staff Attorney Stephen Clark If you have a gun rights quote you'd like to share, please send it, along with a verifiable original source reference to GOUtah! That concludes the GOUtah! Political and Legislative Alert #21 - 19 July 1999. We hope this information will be of assistance to you in defending your firearms rights. Remember that getting this information is meaningless unless YOU ACT ON IT TODAY. If you just read it and dump it in the trash, your gun rights, and the gun rights of future generations go in the trash with it. Get involved, get active and get vocal! Copyright 1999 by GOUtah! All rights reserved. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:51:38 -0600 From: "S. Thompson" Subject: Fwd: A Sheriff Who Sees the Future and Is Taking Action >X-Sender: gunmoll@POP3.aros.net (Unverified) >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 >Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:49:01 -0600 >To: (Recipient list suppressed) >From: Gunmoll >Subject: A Sheriff Who Sees the Future and Is Taking Action > >Do we have a few (or even one) good sheriffs in Utah? > >http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/5454 > >Gary North's Y2K Links and Forums > >Summary and Comments >(feel free to mail this page) > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Category: Government >Date: 1999-07-19 19:17:45 >Subject: A Sheriff Who Sees the Future and Is Taking Action >Comment: > >There are over 3,000 counties in the United States. Every one of the >sheriffs of these counties should send out a letter like this one. > >It's real. I have verified it. I have decided to remove his name and >his county's name. He might suffer ridicule from reporters who do not >live in counties as safe as this one, but who will wish they did next >January. > >* * * * * * * * * * * > >Dear Concealed Weapons Permit Holder: > >These are troubling times. I personally believe that the potential >exists for some very trying, perhaps even catastrophic events to come >to pass during the next few years. And I strongly suspect that we may >enter into this era of turbulence within the next 6 to 12 months. > >Any number of events could precipitate a series of reactionary social >responses, which would almost certainly lead to times of deep unrest, >hardships, and lawlessness of a magnitude unprecedented in our memory. >I think the Y2K situation is far from being resolved. A stock market >crash or other economic crisis could lead to a social breakdown with >great and grave consequences. One would have to be totally deceived or >deluded not to perceive the depravity and lawlessness present in our >nation today. > >Recently I attended a law enforcement conference, which dealt with >murder and serial killers. A number of detectives and investigators >from major metropolitan areas detailed cases of such an horrendous >nature that the ordinary mind boggles at the evil and malevolence of >the acts committed. One of the instructors said, "If you knew how many >of these psychopaths are among us you would be scared to death." > >I'm sure by now you are wondering why I am telling you all of this. >The fact is the sheriff's office may need your help in a time of >crisis. If that time should come we must be able to rely upon people >who are solid, decent of character, and law-abiding. As a holder of a >permit to carry concealed weapons you have been certified, by virtue >of a background investigation, as morally and psychologically fit to >accept the responsibilities which accrue to the possession of these >permits. If I would have had no faith in your stability, integrity, >and character, I would not have given this permit to you. There are >roughly 400 concealed weapons permit holders in XXX YYY County. And it >occurred to me that our permit holders comprise a great reserve of >trustworthy individuals. > >I don't know if major disruptions or catastrophes will actually occur, >but if they do we will almost certainly experience the collapse of >many state and federal agencies, or an inability of those who staff >these agencies to respond appropriately to the crisis. Most of the >state and federal law-enforcement agencies are ill-equipped by >training or experience to deal with local enforcement exigencies. >Ironically, as you know, the major portion of your tax dollars are >siphoned off to the state and federal branches of government, thereby >depriving local government of the means to provide some really >necessary services. > >The XXX YYY County Sheriff's Office has a force of fifteen sworn peace >officers to uphold the law and provide for the safety of 32,000 >residents, roughly one officer for every 2,133 residents. No matter >how well-equipped, trained, or dedicated these officers are it is >plainly evident that we are simply too few to cope with a complete >breakdown of social order. And this is where you come into the >picture. > >I propose to put together a stand-by force comprised of concealed >weapons permit holders. This would be strictly a volunteer pool of >trustworthy people that I could summon in dire times. I further >propose to issue to those who accept this invitation to volunteer for >this list an identification card denoting the holders status as a >stand by subject to call and deputization should an actual crisis >occur. I urge you to give serious consideration to this call for >volunteers. I have provided, with this letter, a short form of >acceptance of this invitation. If you would be willing, during times >of grave emergency, to work with the active members of the sheriff's >office, please complete this form and return it to this office in care >of my attention. This call for volunteers is restricted to the holders >of valid XXX YYY County concealed weapons permits. > >I would like to close with a personal observation and opinion. Our >nation was founded by mostly Christian men and any authority the >federal government was allowed to possess was to derive solely from >the purposely narrowly drawn tenants of the Constitution. Sadly and >tragically this nation has renounced the Christian principles upon >which it was founded. As a nation we have mocked the Sovereign God who >blessed us, and we have denied Jesus Christ who saved us from eternal >destruction. Be not deceived good friends, God will not be mocked. >Whatever we sow we will reap. If God withholds His presence from this >nation and leaves us to our own devices, we are indeed in deep >trouble. And I do believe that time is at hand. Believe in Jesus and >look to Him alone for leadership and guidance, and He will be with you >even unto the end of the world. > >Sincerely yours, > > >Sheriff > >P.S. A reminder that we all need to take the proper measures to >protect and sustain our families and neighbors should a complete >breakdown of social order come to pass. > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 99 11:22:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: FW: ALERT! Tomorrow's Gun Debates at Capitol! - ----- Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:54:58 -0600 From: "Jim Dexter" To: lputah@qsicorp.com Subject: FW: ALERT! Tomorrow's Gun Debates at Capitol! This Wednesday various Interim Committees will be meeting to consider proposals to ban firearms ownership and their lawful use. The three we must be concerned with are the Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice, Judiciary, and Education. The first two are meeting at 2 PM (links to the notice and agenda are below), while Education is meeting at 9 AM in Room 305, according to a source I have. Please note that Education is not posted on the Internet, and has the fewest supporters of the Second Amendment on it. Please plan to attend these meetings, and contact the Committee members tomorrow night to let them know there are already far too many gun control laws, none of which have had any negative effect on criminals. Be advised of the approach they (the gun banners) are now taking. They are seeking to have the ability to have extra-judicial declarations of mental incompetence, after which all of the firearms of a person so declared will be permanently taken under federal law. They advocate "mental health" courts, that I'd be nearly certain are lacking an essential element of justice: a jury. Please don't allow recent favorable newspaper articles to allow you to let your guard down. We must press our attack on these insidious proposals more vigorously than ever. http://www.le.state.ut.us/~1999/interim/html/0721juda.htm http://www.le.state.ut.us/~1999/interim/html/0721lawa.htm - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 99 11:22:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: FW: the freedom to own a gun - ----- Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:00:56 -0600 From: "Jim Dexter" To: lputah@qsicorp.com Subject: FW: the freedom to own a gun Orlando Sentinel July 20, 1999 Worry about the freedom to own a gun -- even if you don't Charley Reese The most intense effort to infringe on the right of Americans to keep and bear arms is now under way, led mainly by Democrats. This is a constitutional matter, not a matter of hardware or crime-fighting. All Americans, including those who don't own guns, should be concerned with guarding a right that has been recognized in America for more than two centuries. Some of us might not choose to exercise a right, such as speech or assembly, but nevertheless we should not want that right taken away. So it is with the right to keep and bear arms. No one has to exercise that right, but all should rally to its defense. It, more than any other right, signifies that Americans are a free people and that sovereignty rests with the people, not with the government. If you are not a gun owner, then think of the Second Amendment as a symbol of your status as a free person with unalienable rights, which are a gift of God, not of the government. And right here is a good time to point out that the Constitution does not, I say does not, grant anyone any rights whatsoever. What the Constitution does is simply acknowledge already-existing rights. If you read the first 10 amendments attentively, you can see that the language itself clearly indicates this. Nowhere will you find language such as "the right to . . . is granted." Let's look at the Second Amendment, for example, from a grammatical point of view. The text is as follows: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Notice that it does not state that the right of the states to have militias shall not be infringed. This amendment consists of a nominative absolute and a subject and verb. The nominative absolute is the phrase "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State." The subject of the sentence is "right." The verb is "shall be infringed" modified by the adverb, "not." Thus the main sentence states plainly that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. So what's with the nominative absolute? Does it limit the right to keep and bear arms? Not at all. It merely answers the question, why should the right to keep and bear arms not be infringed. Harper's English Grammar has this to say about nominative absolutes: "The nominative absolute is, as a rule, the equivalent of an adverbial clause . . . ." Adverbs, you may recall from high school, modify verbs, other adverbs or adjectives. They do not modify nouns, which in this case is "right." A modern way of writing might state, "Because a well-trained militia is essential to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." The only modifiers of the noun "right" are the phrases "of the people" (note, please, it refers to people, not state, not militia) and "to keep and bear arms," which tells us which right. At the time these amendments were written and ratified, the militia was the people. And the word "regulate," in 18th-century usage, meant to train or discipline. Today, we generally use the word to mean control. Some might say the Second Amendment is obsolete. Our own century shows us that it is not. Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Fidel Castro, Pol Pot and Mao all saw to it that people were disarmed prior to commencing their reigns of terror and tyranny. God forbid, but Americans, too, could find themselves some day having to choose between submission or resistance to a tyrant. An unarmed people are never a free people. - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #146 ***********************************