From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #152 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Tuesday, August 17 1999 Volume 02 : Number 152 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Aug 99 17:10:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: FW: GOUtah! Alert #26 - 11 August 1999 1/2 GOUtah! Gun Owners of Utah Utah's Uncompromising, Independent Gun Rights Network. No Compromise. No Retreat. No Surrender. Not Now. Not Ever. Visit our website at www.slpsa.org/goutah! GOUtah! Alert #26 - 11 August 1999 Today's Voice of Liberty: "If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose that, too." - -- Somerset Maugham If you wish to continue to receive this information under the GOUtah! banner, you need to do nothing. If you wish to be added to or taken off the GOUtah! list, please log onto our website at www.slpsa.org/goutah! or send an e-mail to GOUtah3006@aol.com or send a fax to (801) 944-9937 asking to be added to or removed from the GOUtah! list. If you wish to forward or share this copyrighted information with others, you are welcome to do so, on the condition that you pass along the entire document intact and unmodified, and that GOUtah! is clearly indicated as the original source of the material, unless otherwise noted. Federal Anti-Gun Show Legislation Still Looms! Additional Efforts Needed This Week to Help Kill S. 254. ANTI-GUN CONGRESSMEN TO PROMOTE GUN CONTROL WHILE ON RECESS from the NRA-ILA Fax Alert , Vol. 6, No. -- 8/6/99 In meeting for the first time yesterday, the congressional conference committee assembled to resolve the differences between the House and Senate Juvenile Justice Reform bills underscored the divisiveness among members regarding any gun-control brought before the conference committee. Pro-gun Senator Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), in referring to the Lautenberg gun show language passed earlier by the Senate said, "It can't pass. . . . You can't have that amendment written that way," In what should come as no surprise to NRA members, Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.) threatened that a failure by House and Senate leadership to come to an agreement would not signal an end to continued attacks on law-abiding firearms owners in stating, "If we don't get it done [in conference], we're going to get it done on other pieces of legislation this year." With a full debate on this issue less than a month away, it is critical that you call the conference committee members, as well as both your U.S. Senators and your U.S. Representative, to ensure that no anti-gun language is included in the final conference committee's legislation. -End NRA Fax Alert- GOUtah! and NRA suggest you contact each of these elected officials today. You should also ask for the dates and locations of all local 'town meetings' these officials will be holding between now and the end of the month. Ask your pro-gun friends and family to join you at these meetings. Prepare a specific question ahead of time about gun control, like "What is your position on background checks at gun shows, limiting purchases to one gun a month, and licensing law-abiding gun owners and registering their guns with the federal government?" Stand up and proudly ask your question during the question and answer period. Don't settle for a non-answer. If they dodge and weave, ask the question again and demand a clear answer. Remember these people work for you! Follow up your town meeting questions with a letter and a phone call. Ask for a written response to your questions, and fax a copy of the elected official's reply to GOUtah! at (801) 944-9937 for our records. Do it today! Sen. Orrin Hatch Local Office: 8042 Federal Bldg. 125 South State St. SLC, Utah 8484138-1102 Utah Phone: (801) 524-4380 Utah Fax: (801) 524-4379 senator_hatch@hatch.senate.gov Sen. Robert Bennett Local Office: 4225 Federal Bldg. 125 South State St. SLC, Utah 8484138 Utah Phone: (801) 524-5933 Utah Fax: (801) 524-5730 senator@bennett.senate.gov Congressional District 1: Northern and Western Utah, except Salt Lake Metro Rep. Jim Hansen (R) Local Office: 324-25th Ave. Ogden, Utah 84401 Utah Phone: (801) 451-5822 Utah Fax: (801) 621-7846 Congressional District 2: Salt Lake Metro Area Rep. Merrill Cook (R) Local Office: 125 South State Street Salt Lake City, Utah 84138 Utah Phone: (801) 524-4394 E-mail: Cong.Merrill.Cook@mail.house.gov Congressional District 3: Central and Eastern Utah Rep. Chris Cannon (R) Local Offices: 51 South University Drive Provo, Utah 84606 Utah Phone: (801) 379-2500 Utah Fax (801) 379-2509 E-mail: Cannon.ut03@mail.house.gov Local Media Website is a Gateway to Many TV, Radio and Newspapers for Utah's Pro-Gun Rights Activists. GOUtah! activist Mr. Black has indicated a website which allows fellow pro-gun activists to directly contact many Utah TV and radio stations, newspapers, magazines and other media outlets, and puts their editorial pages, letters from readers and other opportunities to comment on the gun rights cause at their fingertips. Log on to: www.utahmedia.com from there you can choose media website links throughout the state and nation, including many smaller markets and publications. We suggest you bookmark this site for extensive future use. You may also link directly to the Utahmedia site from the GOUtah! website. Utah Not Unique in Allowing CCW Guns in Schools Utah has been blasted in the press and among gun control advocates as being the only state in the nation allowing CCW permit holders to carry their guns into schools. The actual fact is that Utah is one of 4 of the 14 states in the Western U.S. that provides for this practice, along with Colorado, Oregon and Washington. Further, Idaho is reportedly considering adoption of the practice as well. There have been no verifiable reports to date of acts of criminal violence by CCW holders at schools in any of these states. This information has been provided to state lawmakers by the Legislature's Research Office. When you hear this inaccurate information being repeated in the media and in conversation, please make sure you help set the record straight. CCW permit holders are not the problem with violence in schools. [ Continued In Next Message... ] - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 99 17:10:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: FW: GOUtah! Alert #26 - 11 August 1999 2/2 [ ...Continued From Previous Message ] SLC Gun Turn-in Program Doubles Their Take at End of First Week of Operation. The SLC Gun Turn-in and Destruction Program continues to show impressive results, according to our contacts who are closely watching the effort. As of the end of the first week of operation, the department was able to fully double their take, adding a single "Dixon" firearm of unknown description to the one BB pistol turned in earlier by an elderly widow, who reportedly was house cleaning and discovered the relic which had belonged to her late husband. At the same time, only one arrest has been made related to the killing of an unarmed man in his own home, in front of his family. The arrested individual is reported to be one of the drivers of the killer's getaway car. The killer of another unarmed women, also murdered in her own home while calling 911 for help remains at large. Utah Legislature's Administrative Rules Committee Blasts DPS/BCI Proposals for CCW Renewal Policy. The Administrative Rules Committee of the Utah Legislature had hash words for DPS/BCI staff at a committee hearing on 9 August 1999 at the State Capitol. Legislators were unimpressed by the new BCI policy which does not provide for a mailed reminder to renew a CCW permit. Elected leaders asked BCI staff what would happen if other state permits, obligations and fees such as drivers licenses and state income tax forms were not sent to citizens needing to take action on these matters. Administrative Rules Committee members asked DPS/BCI to come back in 60 days with new language regarding their policy, including a proposed 30 day grace period for renewals. For more information on the abusive DPS/BCI policies, please refer to GOUtah! Alert # 18 - 7.1.99. Also see comments in the Gun Rights QuoteWatch in this Alert. Unfortunately, DPS/BCI has both a long history and well-earned reputation among gun owners for setting abusive policies and providing minimal services. These abusive policies were the primary motivation for Utah adopting their 'shall issue' CCW laws in 1995. Only during a short two year period, from about 1996 to 1997, under the management of Rich Townsend and the supervision of Todd Peterson, did the DPS/BCI unit make a serious effort to accommodate the needs of Utah gun owners and CCW permittees by adopting a positive customer-oriented attitude. Since that time, DPS/BCI customer services have deteriorated, fees have been raised, and other abusive practices have been proposed or adopted. The additional authority given to DPS/BCI during the last Legislative session will likely accelerate this negative trend. It's time to reverse the trend and make DPS/BCI more accountable and accessible to their customers. GOUtah! suggests you contact each member of the Administrative Rules Committee and request they instruct that DPS/BCI implement each of the following points in their CCW policy. If you or someone you know have had problems with DPS/BCI services or policy, please make sure all the members of the Committee have full details of these abuses. 1: CCW Renewal notices must be sent by mail to each permit holder within a window 90 to 60 days prior to expiration of their permit. This would be a minimal effort with their automated records system now in place. 2: Adopt a formal renewal 'grace period' of 30 calendar days after expiration of a CCW permit without any additional charge or other renewal requirements. 3: Investigate the potential of online renewal of Utah CCW permits via the internet. 4: Allow CCW permits to be renewed on-site at any local DMV office statewide. Have CCW renewal applications always available at all DMV offices, county clerks offices, and other government services offices, similar to voter registration forms. 5: Accept the same forms of payment for CCW permits and renewals that exist for any other Utah permit or license, including personal check, credit or debit card, and other widely-used payment methods or instruments. Utah Legislature's Administrative Rules Committee members to contact today: Sen. Howard Stephenson,1038 E. 13590 S., Draper, UT 84020, (801) 576-1022 Home. (801) 972-8814 Office Sen. Al Mansell, 6995 Union Park Center, #100, Midvale. Ut 84047, (801) 942-6019 Home, (801) 567-4000 Office, (801) 567-4151 Fax Sen. Howard Nielson, 580 Sagewood Ave. Provo, UT 84604, (801) 374-5411 Home Sen. Mike Dmitrich, 566 N. Dover Circle, Price, UT 84501, (435) 637-0426 Home, (435) 472-4732 Office, (435) 472-4782 Fax Sen. Ed Mayne, 5044 W. Bannock Cir. WVC, UT 84120, (801) 968-7756 Home, (801) 972-2771 Office, (801) 972-9344 Fax Rep. David Ure, 661 S. Lambert Lane, Kamas, UT 84036, (435) 783-4650 Home, (435) 783-2487 Office, (435) 783-4650 Fax Rep. Marty Stephens, 3159 N. Higley Rd. Farr West, UT 84404, (801) 731-5346 Home, (801) 538-1930 Office, (801) 594-8229 Fax Rep. Judy Buffmire, 765 E. 4255 S. SLC, UT 84107, (801) 266-1862 Home Rep. James Gowans, 240 S. 200 W. Tooele, UT 84074, (801) 882-2120 Home Rep. John Swallow, 1260 E Bell View Cir., Sandy, UT 84094, (801) 572-8201 Home, (801) 553-9805 Office, (801) 571-6545 Fax GOUtah! Gun Rights (and Wrongs) Quote Watch. "Let me say [that] passing a juvenile justice bill without closing the gun show loophole is a dealbreaker." -- Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY) commenting on the future of S.254 in a national wire service story in the Salt Lake Tribune. (GOUtah! thinks having S.254 die a quiet and natural death would be just fine...) "Maybe I was a little idealistic. We felt that if people were responsible enough to get a concealed-carry permit, they were responsible enough to know when to renew it." -- Joyce Carter, DPS/BCI Supervisor, as quoted in the Salt Lake Tribune, 10 August 1999 "The timing seems suspect. The timing seems to be another attack on the concealed gun permit." -- Sen. Howard Nielson, (R-Provo) as quoted in the Salt Lake Tribune, 10 August 1999 "The public is at risk here in not knowing that you're not going to send out renewal notices." -- Rep. David Ure (R-Kamas) as quoted in the Salt Lake Tribune, 10 August 1999 "It's in the best interests of public safety for everyone who has a permit to be notified that it's about to expire." -- Sen. Howard Stephenson (R-Draper) as quoted in the Salt Lake Tribune, 10 August 1999 If you have a gun rights quote you'd like to share, please send it, along with a verifiable original source reference to GOUtah! This concludes the GOUtah! Alert #26-11 Aug 1999. We hope this information will be of assistance to you in defending your firearms rights. Remember that getting this information is meaningless unless YOU ACT ON IT TODAY. If you just read it and dump it in the trash, your gun rights, and the gun rights of future generations go in the trash with it. Get involved, get active and get vocal! Copyright 1999 by GOUtah! All rights reserved. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 99 21:45:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: FW: GOP Leadership Takes Aim at NRA for NOT working to stop gun control - ----- Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:39:50 -0600 From: "Jim Dexter" To: lputah@qsicorp.com Subject: FW: GOP Leadership Takes Aim at NRA for NOT working to stop gun control The following is from Rocky Mountain Gun Owners..... RMGO Alert Members If you are unfamiliar, Roll Call magazine is one of the most read political publications in Washington, D.C. The following article appeared in its latest magazine. GOP Takes Aim at NRA Gun Group Criticized Over Lobbying Tactics By Jim VandeHei ROLL CALL The National Rifle Association is under fire for its lobbying tactics, but, this time, the shots are coming from Republicans and other pro-gun activists. The NRA, easily the largest and most influential gun-rights lobby in America, has been too quick to compromise and too slow to mobilize its troops to defeat anti-gun legislation in the House and the Senate, GOP leadership sources and gun activists say. As a result, several sources warned that the NRA has presented anti-gun Democrats with the perfect opportunity to score a major political victory next month when key Members of the House and the Senate convene to put the finishing touches on the juvenile justice bill, which is expected to include the first new collection of gun laws since 1994. The NRA plans to focus most -- if not all -- of its attention on killing a 72-hour waiting period for purchases at gun shows. But the group, which Democrats claim is the major obstacle to gun restrictions, is willing to allow several provisions, such as the so-called Juvenile Brady proposal, to sail through, according to its top lobbyist, James Baker. Baker's strategy, which reflects a belief inside the NRA that some gun control measures will pass in the wake of recent shooting sprees, has ticked off many pro-gun Members and activists who deplore any talk of a compromise. "They are not effective at all," said a senior GOP leadership source. "Their efforts have been disorganized and mis-targeted and when they actually fire up their grass roots, it's an effort that [has been] less than impressive." Another senior GOP leadership source added: "They have told us all along that it would be fine to support Juvenile Brady and other proposals and their membership would not care. But they did [care], and [Republican leaders] are not happy about that." Larry Pratt, executive director for Gun Owners of America, said he and many other pro-gun activists are unhappy with the NRA as well. "People want a more proactive position [from the NRA]. That's why our membership has increased" since the June debate over gun control, said Pratt, who estimated that thousands of former NRA members have defected to his organization. Gun Owners of America, he said, opposes any new gun control measures. Baker defended the NRA's performance as reasonable and effective. "If we had opposed everything, we would have lost everything," he said. "We had a responsible position." "It's easy to second-guess when you don't have three million members and gun owners nationally you are trying to protect." The NRA, duplicating the approach it employed during the gun debates in June, will not oppose new trigger locks or a ban on the possession of assault weapons by most people under the age of 18. It vehemently opposes the 72-hour waiting period idea proposed by Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) and the Senate version of the ban on the importation of ammunition clips. While several GOP leadership sources said the NRA's position virtually ensures that some new control measures will be enacted, Baker says a more reasonable approach is needed in today's political climate. It's unclear which provisions will be written into the final compromise version of the juvenile justice conference report, which is slated for floor action in September, but the aforementioned items are on the table. The House-Senate conference team includes the highest-ranking members of the Judiciary committees from both chambers. While the juvenile justice bill is the logical home for gun control measures, Democrats and Republicans alike also predicted a new round of gun debates when the House and Senate conferees sit down to hammer out the final details on spending bills. Appropriations bills, Baker said, "have become the Christmas tree of choice" for anti-gun forces. Ignoring the criticism, the NRA is preparing a media and lobbying strategy to target conferees and several Democrats, such as Reps. Bart Stupak (Mich.) and Chet Edwards (Texas), on the 72-hour waiting period proposal. One leadership source said, "The NRA failed by not going after Stupak and Edwards and others who voted wrong the first time," but one NRA official said their time will come. The short-term lobbying plan, according to Baker, will include direct mail, radio ads and one-on-one pressure from the group's lobbying team when Members return from the August recess. Baker refused to say how much money the NRA is willing to spend on its new campaign. It will focus on conferees initially, but the NRA also has its eyes trained on Members like Stupak who they feel voted the wrong way on gun control the first time around. In 1998, according to records filed under the Lobbying Disclosure Act, the NRA spent $2.25 million on lobbying. The NRA has 10 in-house lobbyists working Members on Capitol Hill and has six lobbying firms on retainer. Lobbyist Mark Barnes, whom the NRA paid $360,000 in 1998, and the firm Timmons and Company, Inc. ($300,000) do most of the outside work for the organization. Other pro-gun groups plan to lobby as well, but they lack the clout and resources the NRA can bring to the table. Pratt's group, which spent less than $150,000 on lobbying last year, is considered the most aggressive pro-gun lobbying organization. "Gun Owners [of America] is much smaller, but much more active. They moved quickly and we heard from their people," said one leadership source close to the issue. John Snyder of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms says his organization spends nominal money directly lobbying Members, but he insisted its network of members can exert pressure from the outside far more effectively. "The real power of the gun lobby is so many ... people own guns. That's the most significant respect of the gun lobby per se," he said. "So we're informing our members and supporters around the country and encouraging them to visit their Congressmen." Rocky Mountain Gun Owners PO Box 3114 Denver, Colorado 80201 (303) 432-3006 Fax 421-8066 Colorado's largest pro-gun lobby http://www.rmgo.org Exdir@rmgo.org - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 99 21:45:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Fewer guns, more crime? http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19990812_xex_fewer_guns_m.shtml Fewer guns, more crime? Firearms rights defended in Los Angeles shooting aftermath By Stephan Archer (c) 1999 WorldNetDaily.com In the wake of another multiple victim public shooting, some are calling on American gun owners to stand up for their constitutional right, even as legislators across the nation are drafting new gun restrictions and questioning the wisdom of the Second Amendment. Three children and two adults were injured Tuesday when a gunman, carrying a 9mm Uzi, opened fire at the North Valley Jewish Community Center in the Los Angeles suburb of Granada Hills. The suspect, Buford Oneal Furrow, was apprehended yesterday by police in Las Vegas after he had fled across the California desert in taxicabs. Although disturbed by the horror that took place at the Jewish community center, Aaron Zelman of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership told WorldNetDaily that all law-abiding Americans who own guns need to stand together to make sure that their right to bear arms remains protected. "It's time for the American gun owners -- Jewish and non-Jewish alike -- to take a stand together, shoulder to shoulder, and tell the 'victim disarmament' crowd that the blood is on their hands for what happened (in Los Angeles)," said Zelman. "The blood is on their hands every time one of these shootings takes place." Zelman believes that the nation's "victim disarmament" policies will eventually lead to a police state in the U.S. This police state, Zelman explains, will, in turn, lead to an overabundant flow of illegal and unregistered machine guns supplied by organized crime. Zelman spoke very critically of what he calls the liberal Jewish community and its support of gun control programs. According to Zelman, about 96% of the Jewish community as a whole supports gun restrictions of one form or another, and this overwhelming support, Zelman concludes, is a sign of ignorance. "Liberal Jews don't have the intelligence to see beyond their nose and see what they're doing," Zelman said. "Time and time again, liberal Jews have done the same stupid thing, that is, get into bed with an evil government thinking that they will be exempt -- thinking that going along to get along and promoting evil policies somehow will be better for Jews or anybody else." "The liberal Jewish agenda in this country is just part of the socialist agenda," continued Zelman, "and that is, to disarm the American people -- have victim disarmament -- and be able to control people totally because they won't be able to fight back against the police state. That's what the Anti-Defamation League crowd wants to bring about." When Zelman was asked about whether or not he considered the shooting a "hate crime," he responded by saying that he thought the whole "hate crime" terminology was absurd. "A hate crime is whatever the government wants it to be so they can divide people -- us against them," said Zelman. "What they're doing is they're trying to psych people up into saying yes. If you say no, than they're going to accuse you of being anti-Semitic. Zelman added he believes the classification of criminal firearm misuse as a hate crime forces the nation to walk on some "dangerously thin ice." But are stricter gun laws the only answer for a nation that has more than 190 million guns? On Tuesday evening's edition of ABC News Nightline, Ted Koppel interviewed Gary Greer, the deputy chief of police for Vancouver, Canada. WorldNetDaily also contacted Greer, who told the newspaper that he was asked onto the ABC show to discuss the differing levels of violence from firearms between Canada and the United States. "You just can't get guns here like you can in the United States," Greer said. "It's not only difficult to buy a gun, you have to go through a fairly rigorous thing to have a gun." Indeed, in Canada, a person can't own a handgun unless he or she is a member of a "bona fide" target club. Even if they are allowed to own a gun, it has to be dismantled when it is in the house, and the gun can only be transported between the target club range and the home. A prospective gun buyer in Canada is also subjected to a 28-day waiting period during which a background check of personally selected references takes place. Once the gun buyer has gone through the process and purchases a firearm, the new gun owner is subjected to a silent computer check every 24 hours to make sure no laws were broken, indicating a misuse of the firearm. In Canada, "the people's right to bear arms" is not recognized by the government. It's a privilege similar to that of a driver's license. "From our point of view within Canada, the concept of having a gun to protect oneself isn't a reason (to own a gun), where I think in the United States, people are believing that they need to have a firearm to protect themselves," Greer said. John Lott, a law professor at Yale University who specializes in Second Amendment issues, disagrees with Greer, and believes that the ability of the people to protect themselves with a firearm is a fundamental right. "The safest course of action by far for someone to take when confronted by a criminal -- whether the criminal's armed or not armed -- is to have a gun yourself, and it's dangerous to go and tell people that they should behave passively," Lott said. Lott explained that women who behave passively when confronted by a criminal are 2.5 times more likely to be injured while men who passively behave when confronted by a criminal are 1.4 times more likely to be injured. "What happens is you leave people out to be sitting ducks," Lott said. "You make it so that they're not able to defend themselves, and it encourages people to engage in these kinds of attacks." Lott said that although Canada claims to have fewer gun- related homicides, the claim isn't quite accurate. In the northern border states, Lott said, the murder rate is actually lower than in Canada even though the northern border states tend to have the highest rate of citizen gun ownership in the country. "If you look across the United States, those states with the highest gun ownership rates tend to have the lowest murder rates and lowest violent crime rates across the board," said Lott, "and probably more importantly, those states that have had the biggest increases in gun ownership have had the biggest relative drops in violent crime." - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 99 21:45:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: FW: Australia Crime Increases After Guns Are Confiscated Australia Crime Increases After Guns Are Confiscated Orange County Register Letters to the Editor Section 8/4/99: It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed, a program costing the government more than $500 million dollars. And now the results are in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent; Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent; Australia- wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent). In the state of Victoria, homicides with firearms are up 300 percent. Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms (changed drastically in the past 12 months). There has been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly. Australian politicians are on the spot and at a loss to explain how no improvement in "safety" has been observed after such monumental effort and expense was successfully expended in "ridding society of guns." Bet you won't see this data on the evening news or hear your governor or members of the state Assembly disseminating this information. It's time to state it plainly: Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws only affect the law-abiding citizens. Take note, Californians, before it's too late! [Forwarded For Information Purposes Only - Not Necessarily Endorsed By The Sender - A.K. Pritchard] A.K. Pritchard http://www.ideasign.com/chiliast/ To subscribe to "The Republican" email list - just ask! "In any nation in which people's rights have been subordinated to the rights of the few, in any totalitarian nation, the first institution to be dismantled is the jury. I was, I am, afraid." - --Gerry Spence - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 99 21:45:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: FW: ALERT: Aaron Zelman and Rabbi Mermelstein on the radio - ----- From: JPFO Alerts [mailto:webmaster@jpfo.org] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 1:46 PM To: jpfo_alerts@topica.com Subject: ALERT: Aaron Zelman and Rabbi Mermelstein on the radio ALERT from Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization Thursday, August 12, 1999 Aaron Zelman and Rabbi Mermelstein on the radio. Aaron Zelman will be on the Don Dayl show on Phoenix, Arizona radio station KFYI Saturday August 14th at 7:00 PM CDT. The show is also carried over the Internet at http://www.kfyi.com/ Aaron will also be on Tom Gresham's "Gun Talk" radio show, which is carried nationally. The time is 2:00 PM CDT, the date is Sunday August 15. You can also listen to the show over the Internet via URL http://www.guntalk.com/listen.htm Rabbi Mermelstein will appear on an Internet broadcast show Friday August 13 at 9:00 AM CDT. The URL is http://www.FBGC.com/ The topic will be Wednesday's JPFO e-mail alert. Anyone with a sound card and an Internet connection can listen to the Internet broadcasts. This Alert from the Liberty Crew at JPFO. Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership PO Box 270143 Hartford, Wisconsin 53027 Phone: 414-673-9745 Fax: 414-673-9746 http://www.jpfo.org/ To subscribe to JPFO Alerts: send a blank e-mail to: jpfo_alerts-subscribe@topica.com Respond to the confirmation message you will get back. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 99 21:45:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: FW: ALERT: Feinstein Gun Poll - ----- Sen. Feinstein's Webpage has a poll obviously seeking support for more gun control. Let her know what you think. http://www.senate.gov/member/ca/feinstein/general/survey.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:01:59 -0600 From: "S. Thompson" Subject: Fwd: Gun Rights Rally >X-Sender: kencan@mail.xmission.com >Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:28:04 -0700 >To: KenCan@xmission.com >From: "Dr. Ken Larsen" >Subject: Gun Rights Rally > >I am suing for my right to keep and bear arms (RKBA). All RKBA supporters >are invited to attend the press conference Wednesday, August 18th at 10:00 >a.m. in front of the Federal Court house at 350 South Main (not the new >Matheson Courthouse). > >Also, if you are willing, please repost this widely. Those who are >inclined are invited to call talk radio tomorrow (Tuesday) and announce >this gun-rights rally. Let's show the media I'm not standing alone for >RKBA. > >Thanks, > >Ken > >***************** > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >& Request for Coverage >CONTACT: Dr. Ken Larsen >at 533-8658 > >Mayoral Candidate Sues Government Over Right To Keep and Bear Arms > >SALT LAKE CITY (August 16, 1999) -- While other mayoral candidates debate >the details of gun control, Candidate Dr. Ken Larsen is suing for his >Constitutional right to keep and bear arms after his attempt to purchase a >handgun was refused. > >Dr. Larsen will be on the east steps of the U.S. District Court House, 350 >S. Main Street, at 10 a.m. Wednesday, Aug. 18, to address the media and >respond to questions. Then, he will file a civil rights lawsuit against the >city, county, state and federal governments in Federal Court. > >Dr. Larsen visited Capitol Jewelry and Loan on Monday, Aug. 16, to pay cash >for a handgun without surrendering any personal information. He was >informed that he could not buy a gun without waiting for an FBI background >check and giving his name, address, birthdate, Social Security number, sex, >height, weight, eye color, hair color and two forms of identification. > >"This requirement violates my Fourth Amendment right to be secure in my >personal papers. It makes gun ownership a government privilege, rather than >an inalienable right," Larsen said. > >The Utah State Constitution begins with, "All men have the inherent and >inalienable right to enjoy and defend their lives and liberties." It >further states that "The individual right of the people to keep and bear >arms for security and defense . . . shall not be infringed; . . ." > >"Just what part of 'shall not be infringed' don't they understand?" Larsen >asked. "The Constitution is what We, the People, established, not what >they, the government, say it is. Now is the time for us, the people, to >take back our Constitutional civil rights." > >"If I had a piece of cloth with fringe on the edges, how much of the fringe >could you trim without cutting the fringe?" Larsen asked. "Furthermore, how >much of my right to keep and bear arms can you infringe without infringing >my right to keep and bear arms?" > >Speaking of the government, Larsen said, "They punish us for violating >their laws so I am asking a jury to punish them for violating our >Constitution. I will sue for $100, attorney's fees and whatever punitive >damages the jury decides." > >"No government official can advocate any form of gun control without first >proposing a constitutional amendment," Larsen said. "Otherwise she/he is >violating his/her oath of office and should be removed and forever banned >from government service." > >For further information, contact Dr. Ken Larsen at 533-8658, or attend the >press conference on the east steps of the U.S. District Court House, 350 S. >Main Street, 10 a.m. Wednesday, Aug. 18. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:59:33 -0600 From: charles hardy Subject: Re: Fwd: Gun Rights Rally I sincerely wish Dr. Larsen the greatest success in this endeavor. However, for all of our sakes I hope and pray he has both the good sense, finacial reserves, and other resources to mount a serious, credible case with EXTREMELY competant and top notch professional legal counsel--someone of the caliber of Gerry Spence or David Hardy at least. The last thing any of us need is for a hostile judiciary to be able to easily set an anti-individual-RKBA precedent--and a hostile media to have that precedent to trumpet about--because the "pro"-gun side failed to mount a credible and serious case. "Miller" should and could have been a slam dunk for the pro-RKBA side--an end to gun control acts of prohibition and another safety wedge against the gun control of the 60's to today. However, Miller's failure to appear at the Supreme Court allowed the anti-gun government to offer lies and falsehoods unchallenged and we ended up with a ruling that appears, too easily to the masses, as a loss for our side. This case is too important and has the potential to adversely affect too many of us too directly for anyone to show up in a tinkerbell hemp goddess outfit, a Brigham Young costume, to start babbling about fringe on the courtroom flag, U.N. conspiracies, insist on representing himself, or otherwise do or say anything that looks or sounds crazy or easily discounted. In this day and age, unfortunately, simply asserting that a person has the right to buy, own, and carry guns without asking for governmental permission or providing ID makes a person sound crazy and radical all by itself. Anyone making such claims had better, IMHO, appear, act, and be 110% sane, credible, and down-to-earth in EVERY other regard--at least until after the case is won. He better have not only absolutely irrefutable case law, constitutional intent, and modern studies, but also present those data in a completely credible and compelling manner. My $.02 worth. On Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:01:59 -0600 "S. Thompson" writes: > > >X-Sender: kencan@mail.xmission.com > >Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:28:04 -0700 > >To: KenCan@xmission.com > >From: "Dr. Ken Larsen" > >Subject: Gun Rights Rally > > > >I am suing for my right to keep and bear arms (RKBA). All RKBA > supporters > >are invited to attend the press conference Wednesday, August 18th > at 10:00 > >a.m. in front of the Federal Court house at 350 South Main (not the > new > >Matheson Courthouse). > > > >Also, if you are willing, please repost this widely. Those who are > >inclined are invited to call talk radio tomorrow (Tuesday) and > announce > >this gun-rights rally. Let's show the media I'm not standing alone > for > >RKBA. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Ken > > > >***************** > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > >& Request for Coverage > >CONTACT: Dr. Ken Larsen > >at 533-8658 > > > >Mayoral Candidate Sues Government Over Right To Keep and Bear Arms > > > >SALT LAKE CITY (August 16, 1999) -- While other mayoral candidates > debate > >the details of gun control, Candidate Dr. Ken Larsen is suing for > his > >Constitutional right to keep and bear arms after his attempt to > purchase a > >handgun was refused. > > > >Dr. Larsen will be on the east steps of the U.S. District Court > House, 350 > >S. Main Street, at 10 a.m. Wednesday, Aug. 18, to address the media > and > >respond to questions. Then, he will file a civil rights lawsuit > against the > >city, county, state and federal governments in Federal Court. > > > >Dr. Larsen visited Capitol Jewelry and Loan on Monday, Aug. 16, to > pay cash > >for a handgun without surrendering any personal information. He was > >informed that he could not buy a gun without waiting for an FBI > background > >check and giving his name, address, birthdate, Social Security > number, sex, > >height, weight, eye color, hair color and two forms of > identification. > > > >"This requirement violates my Fourth Amendment right to be secure > in my > >personal papers. It makes gun ownership a government privilege, > rather than > >an inalienable right," Larsen said. > > > >The Utah State Constitution begins with, "All men have the inherent > and > >inalienable right to enjoy and defend their lives and liberties." > It > >further states that "The individual right of the people to keep and > bear > >arms for security and defense . . . shall not be infringed; . . ." > > > >"Just what part of 'shall not be infringed' don't they understand?" > Larsen > >asked. "The Constitution is what We, the People, established, not > what > >they, the government, say it is. Now is the time for us, the > people, to > >take back our Constitutional civil rights." > > > >"If I had a piece of cloth with fringe on the edges, how much of > the fringe > >could you trim without cutting the fringe?" Larsen asked. > "Furthermore, how > >much of my right to keep and bear arms can you infringe without > infringing > >my right to keep and bear arms?" > > > >Speaking of the government, Larsen said, "They punish us for > violating > >their laws so I am asking a jury to punish them for violating our > >Constitution. I will sue for $100, attorney's fees and whatever > punitive > >damages the jury decides." > > > >"No government official can advocate any form of gun control > without first > >proposing a constitutional amendment," Larsen said. "Otherwise > she/he is > >violating his/her oath of office and should be removed and forever > banned > >from government service." > > > >For further information, contact Dr. Ken Larsen at 533-8658, or > attend the > >press conference on the east steps of the U.S. District Court > House, 350 S. > >Main Street, 10 a.m. Wednesday, Aug. 18. > > > - > ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #152 ***********************************