From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #174 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Wednesday, January 26 2000 Volume 02 : Number 174 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:11:14 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: ALERT--GOP selling out gun rights No time to rest. From today's tribune: Republican Lawmakers Say Whip Got It Wrong; Crime Package Will Include Restrictive Gun Bill BY DAN HARRIE THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE Utah House Republicans were scrambling to do some damage control Wednesday after their spokesman on the touchy topic of gun control distorted the majority party's views on a key firearms bill. Majority Whip Dave Ure, R-Kamas, told reporters Tuesday that a closed-door caucus vote by Republicans was divided on Senate Bill 79, which would restrict gun purchase and possession rights for people convicted of violent misdemeanors. The tally reflected insufficient support to include the measure in a Republican crime-fighting package to be unveiled next week, Ure indicated. The vote, "was split just about right down the wire," Ure had said. "There are some unhappy people with how it's written up." Ure was designated point man on the crime package, and House Speaker Marty Stephens and other GOP leaders referred questions on the gun bills to him. But on Wednesday, Ure was taken to task by fellow legislative leaders in a private meeting. They said he got it wrong. "It's part of our package," Majority Leader Kevin Garn, R-Layton, said Wednesday of SB79. "There was never any question of that." Garn said the secret vote by the GOP caucus on Tuesday was better than 2-to-1 in favor of the bill. While 16 of the 54 House Republicans were absent or not voting, the sentiment was clear, said Garn. "A majority of the Republican caucus will support that bill," said Garn. Ure spoke in opposition to the bill in the closed-door meeting and "has got some issues with the bills," Garn said. Ure would not explain why his vote count was so different from Garn's. However, he said he understood that any bill to be included in the crime package would require 38 votes in the GOP caucus -- the number needed to pass it on the entire floor, without Democratic votes. While Garn insisted that a bill on violent misdemeanors will be included in the anti-crime package, it may look quite different from the current version. Gun-rights groups, including the National Rifle Association and the Utah Shooting Sports Council, have targeted SB79 for defeat. USSC Chairman Elwood Powell has labeled the measure gun owners' "worst nightmare" for the 2000 Legislature. "We're going to narrow it. It needs some work," said Garn. "We may shrink the list [of specified misdemeanors]. We may change it a little bit, but the concept is there." SB79 identifies 33 misdemeanors, with convictions carrying a three-year withdrawal of gun rights. The list ranges from simple assault and negligent homicide to certain drug crimes and lewdness involving a child. The bill was initiated by Gov. Mike Leavitt last summer and drafted by prosecutors and others. The Legislature's Judiciary Interim Committee unanimously endorsed the bill in August after lawmakers trimmed the list to the current 33 misdemeanors. snip .... ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:00:10 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: ALERT--USSC getting ready to sell out on critical rights From today's Deseret News: Bishop, speaking for gun owners in general, said his groups would like to see citizens denied the right to buy a gun only upon a second conviction for a violent misdemeanor. "And we'd like to see some of these (30) crimes whittled down a bit, simplified, and make the punishment for these crimes enhanced. Is Bishop speaking for you on this issue? Better let your legislators know. You might also want to let the USSC know that gun owners don't appreciate them, or their lobbyist, bargaining away our rights. Utah Shooting Sports Council P.O. Box 1975 Layton, UT 84041-6975 ussc@oldguns.net phone number neither listed on web page nor available via 411 If anyone has contact info for Rob Bishop directly, that might also be helpful. I believe he can probably be contacted via the Utah State Republican HQ at 801-533-9777. If no one answers they have a nice voice mail system allowing you to leave a "general message" by pressing "9". There is no option for Bishop. Let's at least fill up the GOP HQ's voicemailbox on this on. GOP leaders tackle gun issues House lawmakers also discussing transportation cash By Bob Bernick Jr. Deseret News staff writer Gov. Mike Leavitt huddled with Republican House leaders Thursday morning over guns and transportation funding — the two issues that have dominated the first week of the 2000 Legislature. House leaders hope to finalize their "crime-fighting" package and perhaps hold a press conference sometime Friday to formally announce what bills and issues Republican will push this session. Thursday morning, GOP leaders said they were looking to add a few measures. "We want to include as much as we can, wrap it all up in a big red ribbon" and start public hearings and taking votes, said House Rules Chairman Susan Koehn, R-Woods Cross. Rob Bishop, lobbyist for the Utah Shooting Sports Council, said meetings have been going on for several days, with one lasting into Wednesday evening. "There are no agreements yet. But we're progressing. And I feel very good about where we're going," Bishop said. A major stumbling block is legislation by Sen. Terry Spencer, R-Layton, sponsor of SB79, a bill that would include 30-odd violent misdemeanors in gun-purchase background checks. Upon leaving the meeting with House leaders Thursday morning, held in Speaker Marty Stephens' office, the governor said he still supports SB79 "as it is written. I hope it passes. We'll see what happens." House Majority Leader Kevin Garn, R-Layton, said SB79 "is part of our package," a clarification from misinformation given out after Tuesday's closed House GOP caucus. Spencer said he believes the bill can win approval without major changes. The bill identifies 32 misdemeanors, including assault, arson and child abuse, as reasons to deny a gun permit for a period of three years. Spencer said some of the offenses, many of which he points out also can be charged as felonies, could be knocked off the list before the bill completes the process. Bishop, speaking for gun owners in general, said his groups would like to see citizens denied the right to buy a gun only upon a second conviction for a violent misdemeanor. "And we'd like to see some of these (30) crimes whittled down a bit, simplified, and make the punishment for these crimes enhanced. "If we're saying these are such serious crimes, that you take away a person's right to a firearm, then the punishment should be greater" than regular fines and jail time for a Class A or Class B misdemeanor, Bishop said. On the transportation front, GOP leaders are struggling with how to balance the Centennial Highway Fund and not take any money out of it. Leavitt wants $25 million removed in fiscal 2001 and given to education. Leaders don't want to do that. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:38:04 -0700 From: Scott Bergeson Subject: [Fwd: LPU: FW: USSC should fire Rob Bishop as its lobbyist] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------19FD022A551E2757ABA6B28C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --------------19FD022A551E2757ABA6B28C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: shbergeson@mail-slkc.uswest.net Received: (qmail 17683 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jan 2000 02:27:37 -0000 Received: from mail4.uswest.net (204.147.80.22) by pop.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 02:27:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 11533 invoked by alias); 23 Jan 2000 02:27:36 -0000 Delivered-To: shbergeson@uswest.net Received: (qmail 11438 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jan 2000 02:27:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.qsicorp.com) (207.173.106.20) by mail4.uswest.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 02:27:34 -0000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.qsicorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id TAA21799 for lputah-list; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:26:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.qsicorp.com: majordomo set sender to owner-lputah@mail.qsicorp.com using -f Received: from mail.inconnect.com (mail.inconnect.com [209.140.64.7]) by mail.qsicorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA21796 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:26:31 -0700 Message-Id: <200001230226.TAA21796@mail.qsicorp.com> Received: (qmail 6862 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2000 02:26:28 -0000 Received: from 1-51.dialup.inconnect.com. (HELO ?209.140.67.50?) (209.140.67.50) by mail with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 02:26:28 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:18:51 -0700 Subject: LPU: FW: USSC should fire Rob Bishop as its lobbyist From: "Jim Dexter" To: LPUtah Forum CC: Bill Barton , Drew Chamberlain , Jim Kirkwood , Janalee Tobias , Mike Ridgway , Ken Olafson , Betty Christensen , Cal Andrus , Tom Boley Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lputah@qsicorp.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lputah@qsicorp.com "Gumby," the pseudonymous provider of the following, like so many other conservative elephants, seems unable to grasp these basic concepts: 1. Rob Bishop, now state chair of the GOP, is a government school _TEACHER_. 2. The government school teachers (read UEA) took over the GOP years ago. 3. The USSC is affiliated with the NRA (National Republican Apologists) and the NRA has a long history of compromising. 4. The USSC replaced Scott Engen as their lobbyist with Rob Bishop. Engen helped start the no-compromise GOUtah!. Bishop must have reasonably assumed USSC wanted more compromise. 5. Within the GOP, Bishop fights or otherwise undermines every effort to make candidates adhere to the RPUtah's mostly libertarian platform. 6. While politics is the art of compromise, compromising basic principles with gun-grabbers is a no-win proposition. BTW, as per my previous postings, I completely agree with Gumby that the violent misdemeanor option should be closed. If it's a violent crime, it should be a felony. - ---------- From: gumby@xmission.com To: (Recipient list suppressed) Subject: USSC should fire Rob Bishop as its lobbyist Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000, 10:12 AM To ALL: This is a good point about USSC and Rob Bishop selling us out to the legislators. He did this last year and is doing the same thing this year. Let your legislature know he does not speak for the gun owners. Gumby This morning's Deseret News had the following quote: "Bishop, speaking for gun owners in general, said his groups would like to see citizens denied the right to buy a gun only upon a second conviction for a violent misdemeanor. "And we'd like to see some of these (30) crimes whittled down a bit, simplified, and make the punishment for these crimes enhanced." Note the the Utah Shooting Sports Council has hired Rob Bishop to be its lobbyist. This is what I wrote to Elwood Powell, who heads up the USSC: "Elwood Powell: I'm concerned that Rob Bishop is continuing to compromise our stand. No matter whether it's one, two, three, or five misdemeanors, if the USSC supports this compromise of the principles enshrined in our Constitution (that only felons should lose their civil rights), then we begin down a slippery slope that has no bottom except eventual confiscation of all firearms based on the tiniest misdemeanors. We can win this without compromise. We have logic on our side, and we have what is RIGHT on our side. Please fire Rob Bishop. He should be saying: make these violent misdemeanors FELONIES!!! Do you want these people who commit these crimes to hold public office, vote, etc.? Let's use common sense. "STOP THE COMPROMISE! "Also, your quote recently about schools doing nothing to enhance safety implied that schools should be installing metal detectors and adding more policemen. I don't believe this is any kind of a reasonable proposal. Let's not make our schools into mini-garrisons. Simply allowing law-abiding citizens (teachers and parents) to exercise their inalienable right to defend their lives through CCW would be quite enough deterrent all by itself. Israel hasn't had a single terrorist incedent in its schools since its teachers have been able to be armed. Besides that, your statement implies that after we install the metal detectors and new guards, and that doesn't work (and it probably won't), then the gun grabbers will then come back at us for more gun control measures." End of quote. You may want to email Mr. Powell and help to persuade him that he does not represent all shooters in Utah, and that his compromising is certainly not in the best interest of any of Utah's citizens. Also tell him to tell Rob to stop telling media and legislators that he speaks for all Utah gun owners. His email address is: 1dpowell@sisna.com (starts with the numeral "1") Phone: 801-476-8274 LPUtah LPUtah -- This message sent via listserver "lputah@qsicorp.com" LPUtah -- All messages are the sole responsibility of the sender. LPUtah -- Support: Jim Elwell, email: elwell@inconnect.com LPUtah - --------------19FD022A551E2757ABA6B28C-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:40:10 -0700 From: Scott Bergeson Subject: [Fwd: LPU: FW: Stephens, Mansell, Bishop] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------4778D94ECA47B9D2E2EB8382 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --------------4778D94ECA47B9D2E2EB8382 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: shbergeson@mail-slkc.uswest.net Received: (qmail 18285 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jan 2000 02:27:38 -0000 Received: from mail8.uswest.net (204.147.80.26) by slkcpop1.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 02:27:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 75876 invoked by alias); 23 Jan 2000 02:27:44 -0000 Delivered-To: shbergeson@uswest.net Received: (qmail 75823 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jan 2000 02:27:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.qsicorp.com) (207.173.106.20) by mail8.uswest.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 02:27:43 -0000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.qsicorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id TAA21808 for lputah-list; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:26:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.qsicorp.com: majordomo set sender to owner-lputah@mail.qsicorp.com using -f Received: from mail.inconnect.com (mail.inconnect.com [209.140.64.7]) by mail.qsicorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA21805 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:26:47 -0700 Message-Id: <200001230226.TAA21805@mail.qsicorp.com> Received: (qmail 6896 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2000 02:26:32 -0000 Received: from 1-51.dialup.inconnect.com. (HELO ?209.140.67.50?) (209.140.67.50) by mail with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 02:26:32 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:25:08 -0700 Subject: LPU: FW: Stephens, Mansell, Bishop From: "Jim Dexter" To: LPUtah Forum CC: Bill Barton , Drew Chamberlain , Jim Kirkwood , Janalee Tobias , Mike Ridgway , Ken Olafson , Betty Christensen , Cal Andrus , Tom Boley Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lputah@qsicorp.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lputah@qsicorp.com More from Gumby - ---------- From: gumby@xmission.com To: (Recipient list suppressed) Subject: LEG-ALERT! Part 2, Stephens, Mansell, Bishop Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000, 10:18 AM To All, PLEASE FORWARD! Arnold Gaunt and I met with Speaker Marty Stephens Thursday, and had a pleasant and productive meeting. Rep. Stephens said he is happy to talk or meet with concerned individuals. He deserves credit for his willingness to do so, and I encourage all of you to share your thoughts and concerns with him. Phone: 801-731-5346 - home, 801-538-1930 - Capitol. And remember that he will be holding more town meetings next week! (The details were in a previous leg-alert.) Marty Stephens's position on current gun bills, according to our conversation: (A summary of each bill can be found in the previous post. Please refer to it for details!) HB 161, Background checks for Weapons Purchase: SUPPORTS (I oppose this one.) HB 174, DPS Fee Increases: OPPOSES (Agreed) HB 176, Weapons Restrictions for Mentally Ill Persons: PARTIAL SUPPORT Stephens supports revoking rights for offenders who plead not guilty by reason of insanity, or guilty but mentally ill. (I agree!) He opposes relaxing the standards for involuntary commitment. (I agree again!) But he isn't yet willing to commit to opposing revocation of rights for involuntary commitment. HB 199, Limits on Gun Manufacturer's Liability: SUPPORTS (Agreed) HB 245, Improving Safety in Public Schools: NO POSITION. Rep. Stephens seemed supportive of amending this bill to include all violent acts. HB 248, Gun Bans in Schools, Churches, Residences: Although we did not discuss this bill specifically, Stephens says he opposes gun bans in schools, churches and private residences. (Agreed) SB 16, "Safe" Storage: OPPOSES (Agreed) SB 32, Marksmanship tests: OPPOSES (He also thinks that Garn's similar bill will be pulled.) (Agreed) SB 37, School Surveys: I didn't ask about this one, as it's not directly a gun bill. SB 79, Violent Misdemeanors: OPPOSES the bill "as written". Would like to see the distinction between felonies and misdemeanors preserved. BUT, would consider supporting the bill if it's reduced to 5-6 "weapons" offenses. We really need to keep the heat up on this one! If a weapons violation is truly violent, it can and should be prosecuted as a felony. If it's not violent (carrying a firearm without a permit, carrying in an airport) it shouldn't result in revocation of rights. Of course the same logic applies to non weapons offenses too! And perverting justice completely by convicting people of misdemeanors and punishing them for felonies is completely out of the question!! SB 87, Gun bans in churches and residences OPPOSES. See HB 248 Another topic of discussion was the (inappropriately named) Republican Crime Package, which may be introduced as early as today. According to Stephens, this package will contain: HB 161 HB 245 HB 176 (or more likely Sen. Spencer's version!) Maybe SB 79 (I hope not!) A sentencing bill that has not yet been introduced. Of course these bills are unlikely to do anything about crime - but they do effectively demonize gun owners and blame US for crime! Background checks don't stop criminals for two reasons: Criminals buy guns from other criminals, not from gun stores. And criminals who try to purchase guns from dealers aren't prosecuted. (Stephens did say he'd support a bill to prosecute felons who try to purchase guns. So why isn't THAT in the "crime package?) Gun bans don't stop criminals either. Criminals, by definition, don't obey laws! And the mentally ill are no more violent than the population as a whole, so singling them out for special persecution and revocation of rights is nothing more than irrational bigotry. (Some mentally ill people commit crimes of course, but the vast majority of criminals are NOT mentally ill and the vast majority of mentally ill are NOT criminal!) PLEASE call Speaker Stephens. 801-731-5346 or 801-538-1930 Or attend one of his town meetings next week. 1. Thank him for his support of gun rights so far. 2. Let him know that blaming law abiding gun owners for crime is offensive! 3. Ask him to ACTIVELY support HB 199 by making sure it gets assigned to a friendly committee, and by encouraging others to support it. 4. Ask him to ACTIVELY oppose all gun control bills! As Speaker of the House, he has tremendous influence over which bills pass. He did a great job in opposing gun control in a special session, but now it's time to oppose gun control in the regular session! 5. DO NOT BACK DOWN ON "VIOLENT MISDEMEANORS"! Rights should NEVER be revoked except upon a FELONY conviction, after a JURY trial! NO COMPROMISE!! 6. Encourage - and offer your support for - a bill to prosecute felons who attempt to purchase firearms. NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO BACK DOWN! NOW IS THE TIME TO KEEP THE PRESSURE STRONG! I am trying to reach Sen. Spencer and Senate President Lane Beattie. I'll let you know when/if I succeed! Quotes from the confused... In a conversation Wednesday, Sen. Al Mansell, (Ass't. Senate Majority Whip) informed me that "Carrying concealed is not a G-d given right. You didn't have that right until we gave it to you five years ago." Maybe it's time to require Constitutional literacy tests for legislators. We HAVE inalienable rights including the right of self defense. No one has to "give" them to us, and no one can take them away. The Constitutions of the US and of Utah guarantee those rights; they don't GRANT them. The legislature took a step in the right direction five years ago when it partially recognized that right. Now it's time to stop infringing on that right with permits, licenses, fees, taxes and other restrictions. The Constitution LIMITS the power of government; neither it nor the legislature "grants rights". And in Thursday's Deseret News: "(Rob) Bishop, speaking for gun owners in general, said his groups would like to see citizens denied the right to buy a gun only upon a second conviction for a violent misdemeanor. "And we'd like to see some of these (30) crimes whittled down a bit, simplified, and make the punishment for these crimes enhanced. "If we're saying these are such serious crimes, that you take away a person's right to a firearm, then the punishment should be greater" than regular fines and jail time for a Class A or Class B misdemeanor, Bishop said." Rob Bishop is the State Republican Party Chair and is also the paid lobbyist for the Utah Shooting Sports Council. He does NOT speak for "gun owners in general". We do NOT support denying anyone any rights based on misdemeanor convictions. Is Rob Bishop confused? Or is Bob Bernick, Jr. (the Deseret News reporter who wrote this) confused? I don't know for sure. Bob Bernick, Jr. bbjr@desnews.com USSC ussc@oldguns.net Take some time this weekend to send postcards (or better yet, letters) to your legislators! Senators 319 State Capitol SLC, UT 84114-0111 Representatives 318 State Capitol SLC, UT 84114-0116 Remember, if you don't ACT, you will lose your rights!! LPUtah LPUtah -- This message sent via listserver "lputah@qsicorp.com" LPUtah -- All messages are the sole responsibility of the sender. LPUtah -- Support: Jim Elwell, email: elwell@inconnect.com LPUtah - --------------4778D94ECA47B9D2E2EB8382-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:33:31 -0700 From: Scott Bergeson Subject: [Fwd: LPU: FW: LEG-ALERTS: Announcing UTGuns] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------B1E0CFE546FDF01DDD871640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --------------B1E0CFE546FDF01DDD871640 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: shbergeson@mail-slkc.uswest.net Received: (qmail 19993 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jan 2000 19:01:49 -0000 Received: from mail7.uswest.net (204.147.80.25) by pop.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 19:01:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 42001 invoked by alias); 24 Jan 2000 19:01:48 -0000 Delivered-To: shbergeson@uswest.net Received: (qmail 41981 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jan 2000 19:01:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.qsicorp.com) (207.173.106.20) by mail7.uswest.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 19:01:48 -0000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.qsicorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id MAA01418 for lputah-list; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:00:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.qsicorp.com: majordomo set sender to owner-lputah@mail.qsicorp.com using -f Received: from mail.inconnect.com (mail.inconnect.com [209.140.64.7]) by mail.qsicorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA01415 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:00:35 -0700 Message-Id: <200001241900.MAA01415@mail.qsicorp.com> Received: (qmail 1685 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 18:53:06 -0000 Received: from 1-157.dialup.inconnect.com. (HELO ?209.140.67.156?) (209.140.67.156) by mail with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 18:53:06 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:53:05 -0700 Subject: LPU: FW: LEG-ALERTS: Announcing UTGuns From: "Jim Dexter" To: LPUtah Forum CC: Bill Barton , Drew Chamberlain , Jim Kirkwood , Janalee Tobias , Mike Ridgway , Ken Olafson , Betty Christensen , Cal Andrus , Tom Boley Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lputah@qsicorp.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lputah@qsicorp.com FYI - ---------- ANNOUNCING: UTGuns http://www.utguns.freeservers.com Do you have trouble finding your copies of leg-alerts when you need them? Would you like to have leg-alerts at work or school, but can't receive personal email? Do you have friends who need information on how to fight for their firearms (and other) rights? Would you like to have more of the information you need to keep track of bills, legislators, etc. in one convenient place? If so, WELCOME TO UTGuns, the new web site for legislative information! Archives of all leg-alerts! How to contact your legislators! How to talk to legislators! Analyses of bills! Links to other useful sites! UTGuns is at http://www.utguns.freeservers.com. Please stop by for a visit, and come back often! And tell your liberty-loving friends! Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made and this message is left intact. To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: majordomo@aros.net In the body put: subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts - ------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to leg-alerts-request@aros.net with the line unsubscribe leg-alerts in the body. LPUtah LPUtah -- This message sent via listserver "lputah@qsicorp.com" LPUtah -- All messages are the sole responsibility of the sender. LPUtah -- Support: Jim Elwell, email: elwell@inconnect.com LPUtah - --------------B1E0CFE546FDF01DDD871640-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:47:45 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: LEG-ALERTS: Announcing UTGuns all ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy - --------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: righter@therighter.com >Reply-To: righter@therighter.com > >ANNOUNCING: UTGuns http://www.utguns.freeservers.com > >Do you have trouble finding your copies of leg-alerts when you need them? > >Would you like to have leg-alerts at work or school, but can't receive >personal email? > >Do you have friends who need information on how to fight for their firearms >(and other) rights? > >Would you like to have more of the information you need to keep track of >bills, legislators, etc. in one convenient place? > >If so, WELCOME TO UTGuns, the new web site for legislative information! > > Archives of all leg-alerts! > How to contact your legislators! > How to talk to legislators! > Analyses of bills! > Links to other useful sites! > >UTGuns is at http://www.utguns.freeservers.com. Please stop by for a >visit, and come back often! > >And tell your liberty-loving friends! > >Sarah >New poll! Does Utah need more gun control? > >Go to www.utguns.freeservers.com. >Scroll down. >Vote. > >It's not very accurate, but it's at least as good as Dan Jones! > >Moll > > >Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All >information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, >unless otherwise attributed. > >This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't >work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the >list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! > >Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no >changes are made and this message is left intact. > >To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: >majordomo@aros.net >In the body put: >subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts > >------------- >To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to leg-alerts-request@aros.net >with the line unsubscribe leg-alerts in the body. > > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:04:58 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: LEG-ALERTS: 1/25 VICTORY!! (on one bill keep up work on SB 72) all, ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy - --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: righter@therighter.com To: leg-alerts@aros.net NEWS FLASH! SB 79, Terry Spencer's first Revocation of Rights for Misdemeanors bill is DEAD! It has been filed and will NOT be discussed or voted on this session! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! This is NOT the time to let down your guard though. Sen. Spencer's SECOND Revocation of Rights for Misdemeanors bill, SB 72, is still very much alive. And more bills can still be filed! Now is the time to INCREASE the pressure. Keep calling Sen. Spencer, Sen. President Beattie, and your OWN Senator and Representative, and DEMAND that SB 72 be killed, and that NO GUN CONTROL legislation be passed! You're all doing a great job. Keep up the good work! Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. Leg-alerts can also be found at UTGuns, http://www.UTguns.freeservers.com. Please check out the new site! This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made and this message is left intact. To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: majordomo@aros.net In the body put: subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts - ------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to leg-alerts-request@aros.net with the line unsubscribe leg-alerts in the body. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:56:43 -0700 From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Re: Is SB79 dead? - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Is SB79 dead? Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:48:07 -0700 From: "Josiah" To all: It is alive again in the form of SB72 notice the lower number, this was their bill from the beginning and it is more subtle than SB79. Somebody smarter than me will fill you in on the particulars. Of course SB72 is sponsored by Terry "Gump" Spencer , his bills "are like a box of chocolates you never know what you're gonna get". Josiah ----- Original Message -----From: Paul Sellen Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 7:10 PMSubject: Is SB79 dead? NEWS FLASH! "SB 79, Terry Spencer's first Revocation of Rights for Misdemeanors bill is DEAD! It has been filed and will NOT be discussed or voted on this session! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!" Bills have away of re-appearing. In some version Spencer's bill will re-appear, probably as part of the Republican Crime package. Reliable information has it that most of the misdemeanors on the list will be eliminate except the top four or five. These violent misdemeanors will carry a sentence for a period longer than 12 months. Perhaps 366 days plus. This will then bring the federal law into effect which provides that a person convicted of a crime with a penalty of longer than one year can never, ever posses a firearm again! No state funding increases, no increased enforcement problems by the state - the penalty denying a firearm would be enforced by the federal government not the state, etc. The state goes on its merry way and lets big brother do the dirty work! Although the misdemeanor bill was terrible this is worse. The misdemeanor bill did provide that after 3 years you could again have a firearm. The bill may also be retroactive! Being retroactive may be ex post facto and thereby unconstitutional but who knows how the courts will rule! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:15:07 -0700 From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: 25 Jan - Backdoor Gun Control - ---------- ACTION ALERT Jan. 25, 2000 - Backdoor Gun Control BACK DOOR GUN CONTROL In a move that would make Ted Kennedy or Rosie O’Donnell proud, some legislators are floating around a proposal that would raise the punishment for the misdemeanors listed in S.B. 79 to more than a year in jail. Their proposal would have no language mentioning any loss of Second Amendment rights. However, under federal law, a person who has been convicted of a crime that is punishable by more than one year loses their right to keep and bear arms for life, even if no jail time is served. What the supporters of S.B. 79 hope to achieve with this proposal, is to make conviction of certain misdemeanor state crimes a lifetime ban on owning firearms by making persons ineligible under federal law. This way they can claim they are still pro-gun because their bill did not have any specific gun control wording in it. We realize this is getting old, but we need to have everyone contact the below listed legislators again and tell them that this alternative to S.B. 79 is worse than the original bill. We need to let them know that we see through this scheme and that such a proposal is totally unacceptable. WHAT YOU NEED TO DO TODAY As soon as possible, contact your individual state senator and state representative. If you do not know who yours are, call your county clerks office or check out the links on our web site at www.UtahShootingSports.org. Also, contact all of the legislators listed below. Tell them that you are aware that some legislators are floating a substitute proposal to S.B. 79 that would make certain misdemeanors punishable by more than one year. Tell them that such a law, even if it had no gun prohibitions in it, would make a person lose their firearm rights for life under federal law. Tell them that this proposal is worse than the original S.B. 79 and that you think it is nothing more than a sneaky way to achieve the aim of the original S.B. 79. Senator Terry Spencer, Chair 1110 N Kimberly Dr. Layton, Utah 84302 543-4450 Republican Senate fax 801-538-1414 tspencer@le.state.ut.us Senate President Lane Beattie 801-292-7406 (H) 801-538-4450 (Capitol) Republican Senate fax 801-538-1414 lbeattie@le.state.ut.us Speaker of the House Marty Stephens 801-731-5346 (H) Republican House fax 801-538-1908 mstephen@le.state.ut.us USSC LOBBYIST MISQUOTED Many gun owners were dismayed when they read a quote from USSC Lobbyist Rob Bishop in a recent Deseret News article. It stated that the USSC would like to see the legislature pass a law that would take away a persons gun rights after the conviction of a second misdemeanor. We want to set the record straight. Mr. Bishop was misquoted and the USSC is absolutely AGAINST ANY BILL THAT WOULD TAKE AWAY A PERSONS GUN RIGHTS FOR THE CONVICTION OF ANY MISDEMEANORS! MEET YOUR LEGISLATORS AT THE CAPITOL For those of you who would like to go above and beyond, we recommend visiting your legislator on capitol hill. Very few people ever take the time to visit their state senator and state representative at the capitol. If even a few people did this, it would make a strong impression. Visiting your legislator is easy. In the capitol lobby you go to a desk and fill out a form with your name and who you wish to speak to. The message is sent to the floor and when your legislator gets time, he will meet you in the lobby. If you do this, it is important to express your views in a firm but polite manner. Even if your representative happens to be the most anti-gun radical in the whole legislature, it is vitally important that you smile, be polite and thank them for listening to you. They may try and sway you against your position. Listen to them but do not get in to a heated argument. Just state your views. Dress appropriately. Your Sunday best would be preferable but casual attire in good taste will be fine. Avoid the T-shirts with the “Take my guns and I’ll blow your head off” slogans on them. Ricki Landers, a lobbyist for the disabled, and a very strong gun supporter is up on capitol hill almost every day. She is not a USSC member or a representative of USSC, but she has agreed to help walk gun owners through the process of meeting lawmakers. E-mail her to work out a time when she will be on capitol hill and you can meet with her. She can explain everything you need to know about talking to legislators. If your somewhat intimidated by going up to the capitol, don't be. Ricki can guide you through the whole process and make it very simple. Ricki Landers address is weelnricki@aol.com. Please make those contacts today. Please check your e-mail regularly things can change by the hour. Please forward this alert to as many people as possible. If this alert was forwarded to you by someone other than USSC you can sign up for alerts by sending an E-mail to addalerts@UtahShootingSports.org Please forward this e-mail to anyone you think may be interested. For anyone who does not have Internet access, the latest Utah legislative updates are available by telephone. The number is 801- 299-7230. Visit our Beattie at: www.UtahShootingSports.org for the latest news and membership applications. To be removed from the USSC E-Mail Action Alert list, send an e-mail to: dropalerts@UtahShootingSports.org Thanks for your time. Provided by the Utah Shooting Sports Council, Box 1975, Layton, UT 84041-6975 - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #174 ***********************************