From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #182 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Friday, March 3 2000 Volume 02 : Number 182 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:31:13 -0700 From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: REP. WRIGHT BETRAYAL! H.B 124 Forfeiture - ----- Subject: REP. WRIGHT BETRAYAL! Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 00:55:42 -0700 From: "Arnold J. Gaunt" PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY! Rep. Bill Wright, with shocking contempt for his previous supporters, crossed enemy lines today to present his forfeiture PRESERVATION and EXPANSION H.B. 124. Using the tactics of the LEFT, he produced 3rd Substitute of this bill without warning at the committee hearing today at 4 P.M. This substitute was written by Clark Harms, confiscation king of Utah! Among the provisions Wright/Harms have included is the ability for the police to pronounce forfeiture immediately upon seizure. NO TRIAL, NO JURY, NO JUSTICE! ALL POWER TO THE POLICE! Without delay please contact your Representative and inform him/her that you have no tolerance for this treachery. Also contact Rep. Wright and Rep. Swallow (co-sponsor), and express your outrage that they would attack authentic reform with their counterfeit H.B. 124, 3rd substitute. I will follow up soon with additional details on this traitorous assault! Arnold - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:03:23 -0700 From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: LEG-ALERTS 2-24: The final stretch - ---------- Today's activities Tomorrow's votes Rules Committees HB 124 TODAY'S ACTIVITIES HB 176S3 -Weapons Restrictions for Mentally Ill (G. Cox) was passed by the Senate Judiciary Committee today by a vote of 5-0-1. It now goes to the Senate floor for a vote. SB 32S2 - Marksmanship Tests for Concealed Carry (R. Allen) was held in the Senate Transportation Committee. Since there are no more committee meetings, it will not have a committee vote. Senate rules prohibit voting on a bill that has not had a committee review. However, this rule will almost certainly be suspended, allowing a possible floor vote sometime next week. HB 296 - Prevention of Retaliatory Lawsuits (Lockhart) was also held in committee. If Rules are suspended, this bill will likely have a floor vote next week. FRIDAY'S VOTES The following bills are scheduled for a vote on Friday. Please let your Senator and Representative know how you would like them to vote! SENATE VOTES Bills to OPPOSE: HB 161, Background Checks (Tyler) - Juvenile Brady HB 173, Forfeiture (Buckner) - Forfeiture of computer equipment HB 245, Safety in Public Schools (Wright) - treats non-violent offenses as more serious than violent offenses! Bills to SUPPORT: HB 199, Limitation of Liability (Throckmorton) - prevents frivolous lawsuits against gun manufacturers. HOUSE VOTES Bills to OPPOSE: HB 124 - Asset Forfeiture Revisions (Wright) - This bill makes Utah's already abusive asset forfeiture laws even worse by allowing for the seizure of property with absolutely NO due process! SB 72 - Restricted Persons (Spencer) - Juvenile Brady RULES COMMITTEES With one exception, review committee hearings are over for this session. Bills will now have floor votes ONLY. Of course there are hundreds of bills still awaiting votes! Will all of them have votes? Which ones will be heard when? These decisions are made by the RULES committees. The Rules Committees (House Rules and Senate Rules) prioritize bills and send them to the floor for a vote. They can also "hold" a bill in Rules long enough that it does NOT have a floor vote, and therefore doesn't become law. (Legislators can vote to have a bill released from Rules, however.) Obviously, the Rules Committees play a very important role, especially during the final days of the session. So it's essential that you let members of the Rules Committees know which bills you would like to see released for a final vote, and which ones you would like to see held. Senate Rules Sen. Leonard M. Blackham, lblackha@le.state.ut.us, 435-436-8489 Sen. Joseph L. Hull, jhull@le.state.ut.us, 801-731-3705 Sen. Paula Julander, pjulande@le.state.ut.us, 801-363-0868 Sen. Eddie "Ed" P. Mayne, emayne@le.state.ut.us, 801-968-7756 Sen. L. Steven Poulton Chair, spoulton@le.state.ut.us, 801-272-4338 Sen. Terry Spencer, tspencer@le.state.ut.us, 801-543-4450 Sen. Michael G. Waddoups, mwaddoup@le.state.ut.us, 801-967-0225 All can be contacted at 801-538-1035. Email list (cut and paste) lblackha@le.state.ut.us, jhull@le.state.ut.us, pjulande@le.state.ut.us, emayne@le.state.ut.us, spoulton@le.state.ut.us, tspencer@le.state.ut.us, mwaddoup@le.state.ut.us House Rules Rep. Gerry A. Adair, gadair@le.state.ut.us, 801-773-2125 Rep. Ron Bigelow, rbigelow@le.state.ut.us, 801-968-4188 Rep. Blake D. Chard, bchard@le.state.ut.us, 801-773-7474 Rep. Gary F. Cox, gcox@le.state.ut.us, 801-967-9760 Rep. David L. Gladwell Vice Chair, dgladwel@le.state.ut.us,801-782-4130 Rep. Brent H. Goodfellow, bgoodfel@le.state.ut.us, 801-968-0626 Rep. Tom Hatch, thatch@le.state.ut.us, 435-676-2214 Rep. Neal B. Hendrickson, nhendric@le.state.ut.us, 801-969-8120 Rep. David L. Hogue, dhogue@le.state.ut.us, 801-254-1668 Rep. Susan J. Koehn Chair, skoehn@le.state.ut.us, 801-296-1761 Rep. Raymond W. Short, rshort@le.state.ut.us, 801-277-1372 All can be contacted at 801-538-1029. Email list: gadair@le.state.ut.us, rbigelow@le.state.ut.us, bchard@le.state.ut.us, gcox@le.state.ut.us, dgladwel@le.state.ut.us, bgoodfel@le.state.ut.us, thatch@le.state.ut.us, nhendric@le.state.ut.us, dhogue@le.state.ut.us, skoehn@le.state.ut.us, rshort@le.state.ut.us HB 124 - Asset Forfeiture (Wright, Swallow) The following bill analysis was written by Arnold Gaunt, and edited for brevity by Sarah. PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY! February 24, 2000 Contents Property Confiscation Legislation Passes Committee More Police Power to Steal Your Property Rep. Wright's Record of Betrayal KILL H.B. 124 Property Confiscation Legislation Passes Committee An extremely dangerous piece of confiscation legislation, H.B. 124 3rd Substitute, was passed Tuesday by the Government Operations Committee. This legislation, sponsored by Rep. Bill Wright (and co-sponsored by Rep. John Swallow), passed the Committee with an 8-2 vote. http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2000/bills/hbillamd/HB0124S3.htm More Police Power to Steal Your Property While promoted as authentic forfeiture reform, the bill in fact creates shocking forfeiture power previously unknown in Utah. On lines 103 and 104, it states that the "following are contraband, are summarily forfeited upon seizure, and no property rights exist in them". This power is reinforced and expanded on lines 232 through 235, which reads: "All substances listed in Schedules I through V, and all items listed in Subsections (2) and (3)(a), (b), and (d) that are possessed, transferred, distributed, or offered for distribution in violation of this chapter are contraband, are summarily forfeited, and no property right exists in them." What summary forfeiture means is that property such as lawful prescription drugs (such as those at a pharmacy), farming equipment and materials including tractors, trucks, and fertilizer, insulin dispensing equipment, aircraft, automobiles, boats, books, and computers can be confiscated without any due process of law. Once your property is seized by the police, there will no opportunity to recover it in court. The decision of the police is FINAL! Another expansion of police power is found on lines 188-192, where explicit authority is granted for law enforcement to seize your car without a warrant. This government theft mechanism has been used in states such as Louisiana, where out of state vehicles are easily seized and forfeited given the nearly impossible odds and overwhelming financial burden of an out-of-state owner proving the vehicle's innocence. Forfeiture powers are expanded to allow the federal police (i.e. BATF, FBI, DEA, SS (Secret Service), etc.) the ability to enforce Utah's laws (see lines 94-98). With the Utah forfeiture code at their disposal, federal police are provided extensive opportunities to threaten and steal from innocent people with impunity. More significant than the expansion of forfeiture powers just cited is the absence of any restriction on the ability of state law enforcement to transfer seized property to the federal government to circumvent Utah's laws (such as the recent Utah Supreme Court decision prohibiting disproportionate or excessive forfeitures). Without this restriction, any protective present or future provision of Utah law can subverted by the police turning the seized property over to the federal government. The federal law does not require court action to accomplish the forfeiture, so forfeiture is usually a mere formality. Then, up to 80% of the proceeds are returned to the state's seizing agency. KILL H.B. 124 Please contact your Representative immediately and urge the defeat of any version of H.B. 124 (call 801-538-1029 and ask for your legislator to return your call if not available). Thanks to all of you for your calls, your presence at committee hearings, and your support! Sarah - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:53:32 -0700 From: Scott Bergeson Subject: "Liberals" Armies of Chaos by L. Neil Smith Before anyone proposes more gun control, he or she should know about a simple, deadly weapon 4 times as powerful as Dirty Harry's legendary .44 Magnum -- and at least twice as concealable -- that can't be controlled. This simple, deadly weapon can be made by anyone—even a child—with unpowered hand tools in an hour's time using $5 worth of materials, most of which are available around the house anyway. In traditional form it's reusable an unlimited number of times, and modern plastics have rendered its disposable version electronically undetectable. You can clear a room with such a weapon (more of a hand-held directional grenade than a gun—sort of a recycleable Claymore mine) and it's just one of hundreds of similar time-proven designs. Complete instructions for building this simple, deadly weapon could be given in half the space I'm using here and not require a single illustration. Or it could be done as a line-drawing and not require a word. Either way, the results would Xerox splendidly and reduce, for effortless distribution, to the size of a 3X5 card. No, I'm not making this up. Self-styled liberal academics and politicians generally suffer an ancient Greek prejudice against the manual trades and often fail to comprehend what it means, with respect to banning weapons, that we're a nation of basement lathe-operators. Americans unknowingly tend to follow Mohammed's precept that, whatever a person's station in life, he or she should also do something manual, if only to stay grounded in reality. And if there's any lingering doubt about the ease of basic weaponscraft, ask the Israelis who, early in their nation's history, turned out submachineguns little more complicated than what I'm discussing here, in automotive garages lacking even a lathe. Civilized restraint precludes my describing the weapon in any greater detail here. Many gun enthusiasts will know by now exactly what I refer to, anyway. It's in everyday use in much of the Third World, especially where governments foolishly believe that they've outlawed weapons. But that, of course, is impossible—unless the same governments want to try repealing the last 1000 years of civil engineering. Now suppose somebody went ahead and wrote out those easy-to-follow instructions, made that line drawing, or simply Xeroxed it from any of 100 sources already in print. Suppose the plans for a reusable, undetectable weapon 4 times as powerful as a .44 Magnum and twice as concealable began circulating on every junior high school campus in America. Or suppose they were simply sent to the media who can never resist giving viewers step-by-step directions for committing a crime—even as they bemoan the terribleness of it all. So what, you say. So this: within hours, every self-styled liberal academic and politician extant would begin to weep, wail, and whimper (the only thing they're really good at) and before the media-amplified screaming was over—but after the legislature had met—we'd find that the rights protected by the First Amendment (not created or granted, mind you, only recognized and guaranteed) are no more secure than those supposedly protected by the Second. Free expression would be trampled under without another thought or a moment's hesitation by the same jackals, vultures, and hyenas currently leading the stampede to outlaw weapons—using exactly the same excuses. When Xerox machines are outlawed, only outlaws will have Xerox machines. Human rights are indivisible because there's really only one—the right to remain unmolested by the government or by anybody else. Those who threaten one right threaten them all—and aren't really "liberals" by any definition of the word. Suppressing the human right to own and carry weapons is a step toward suppressing the human right to read, write, and think. Ask Canadians, for whom censorship is a fact of daily life, and for whom certain "assault" books (many of them published by Paladin Press) are on the "hafta smuggle it in" list. The same thing can and will happen here. Haven't we had ample warning in the way self-styled liberals, assisted by the corrupt media, suppress their opposition on these and other issues? Or in their willingness to present lies as truth while the truth is called a lie? Or in the fact that elected officials who advocate gun control—which is a felony—are still at large instead of behind bars where they belong? The very existence of a gun control lobby gives the lie to any claim they make to liberalism. The word "liberal" itself is false advertising, and the question arises, why do we go on applying it when the word "fascist" is so much more appropriate? A popular bumper sticker proclaims that "GUN CONTROL IS PEOPLE CONTROL". More to the point, and far more sinister, gun control is MIND control. The relationship only begins with ludicrous attempts by self-styled liberals to convince a population protected by the Second Amendment that the Bill of Rights doesn't mean what it says. Weapons consist of more than machined steel or wood, cast aluminum or plastic. As John M. Browning or Sam Colt would tell you, their second-most vital component is an idea. (The first, for better or worse, is the will to use them.) Without that idea behind it, all the steel, wood, aluminum, and plastic in the world doesn't make a weapon. Those who would outlaw weapons must first outlaw the knowledge of weapons. And those who would outlaw the knowledge of weapons must outlaw knowledge itself. Similarly, civilization consists of more than just impressive public buildings and a battery of arbitrary rules. Its continued existence depends absolutely on the day-to-day good will of each and every individual. History (especially recent Soviet history) proves that this good will depends on how well individual rights are respected. Alienate the individual, lose his good will, and you lose civilization itself. Think I exaggerate? Take another look at Beirut, Los Angeles, or the World Trade Center. Every day we learn again how dependent we've been all along on individual self-restraint. Self-styled liberals label this lesson "terrorism" because it makes them feel better and helps them to forget until tomorrow. But it doesn't matter what they call it. In sufficient numbers, disaffected individuals become armies of chaos, reducing whole civilizations to archaeological rubble. And, as with most violence in our culture, it is self-styled liberals who will make it happen here. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:58:06 -0700 From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: LEG-ALERTS 2-29: Good news, bad news! - ----- Today is the last and most dangerous day for the legislature that has already been labeled the worst in recent history. - ---------- Apologies if this is a duplicate. I'm still having computer problems... Contact info for ALL legislators can be found at: http://www.utguns.freeservers.com Senate number 801-538-1035 House number 801-538-1029 BAD NEWS!! BETRAYAL ON SB 72! SB 72 has been substituted yet again and is now on its 4th substitute, sponsored by Blake Chard. The "new" bill mandates a LIFETIME REVOCATION OF RIGHTS for anyone who has EVER been committed to a mental institution - - even if the person was wrongfully committed, even if the person has recovered fully. This is nothing but a back-door approach to revoking your gun rights FOREVER without having to bother with inconvenient and expensive "technicalities" like due process and jury trials. SB 72 still contains all the other offensive provisions including an unconstitutional revocation of rights for juveniles, LIFETIME revocation of rights for possession of a single pain pill while in possession of a firearm (i.e. more revocation of rights for misdemeanors!), and LIFETIME revocation of rights for those dishonorably discharged from the military for POLITICAL reasons. Enough is enough! Insist that YOUR representative KILL SB 72 NOW! HB 372 STILL ALIVE... Many of you have written saying that legislators are telling you that SB 372 has been "fixed". THIS IS NOT TRUE! While Sen. Waddoups's substitute takes out the horrible language proposed by Rep. Garn, it does NOTHING to fix the many problems in the existing code. If legislators want to play with the concealed carry law, they need to make it BETTER! Rep. Garn has asked me to make it clear that the problem language is NOT anything he personally wrote. It's bad language that's ALREADY in the Code. However, Rep. Garn chose NOT TO amend this language, while he was amending existing code to make things worse for gun owners. Problems with the bill include: Mandates revocation or denial of a concealed carry permit for MISDEMEANORS and INFRACTIONS! Allows revocation or denial of a concealed carry permit based on completely unproven allegations that a person is or has been a "danger". If an irate neighbor says you're dangerous, you can lose your permit! Allows BCI to deny a permit based on expunged records! Allows BCI to deny a permit based on juvenile records! Requires you to provide a five year employment history. (Wouldn't you love to have BCI call your employer and tell him you've applied for a carry permit - especially if you work for an anti-gun employer like the University of Utah or a public school?!) Requires YOU to prove that you have a "good character", rather than requiring BCI to prove you don't. Revocation of permits is based on preponderance of the evidence, which again means YOU have to PROVE YOUR INNOCENCE! There is STILL no liability protection for instructors. Even worse, the forces of evil are rallying to tack on every conceivable gun control provision! It is not likely that we will be able to defeat all of them! This means we will LOSE MORE RIGHTS and will not gain anything! Does that sound like a "compromise" to you? (Yes, Rep. Garn has promised to kill the bill if it's amended, but this is still a risky way to pass legislation.) There's only ONE DAY LEFT! The ONLY SOLUTION is to KILL HB 372! Don't let your legislators sweet talk you. Let them know the bill must DIE!! Call your Senator and Representative NOW!! Both UTGuns and Gun Owners of America OPPOSE this bill. Don't let ANYONE tell you that "All gun groups have approved this bill!" HB 161 - Juvenile Brady (Tyler) passed it final vote in the Senate today and will soon be on its way to Gov. Leavitt. Please ask Gov. Leavitt to VETO this bill! 538-1000 GOOD NEWS! Forfeiture lobby loses, property rights win! Thanks to YOUR EFFORTS, HB 173, Computer Forfeiture (Buckner) was DEFEATED in the Senate earlier today. This is a HUGE achievement as SIX Senators agreed to change their votes overnight. Thanks to ALL of you! Reps. Swallow and Wright have also agreed to kill HB 124, Asset Forfeiture revisions, so that we can work together to create a bill that will have unqualified support. However, the bill is still on the calendar. Please THANK Reps. Wright and Swallow, and encourage them to formally remove the bill from consideration. 538-1029 MORE GOOD NEWS! HB 199, Limitation on Liability for Gun Manufacturers (Throckmorton) passed its final vote today! Congratulations and a big THANK YOU to Rep. Matt Throckmorton for having the courage to run a PRO-GUN bill! HB 199 will soon be on its way to Gov. Leavitt, so please make sure he knows that you expect him to SIGN this bill! 801-538-1000 BILLS IN RULES THAT NEED TO STAY THERE! Remember that ANY bill can be released and have a vote right up until midnight tomorrow! We need to stay ALERT! Please write to the SENATE RULES COMMITTEE and ask them to: HOLD HB 176S3 - Weapons Restrictions for Mentally Ill (G. Cox) HOLD HB 91 - Tax Credits for Safes (Bennion) RELEASE HB 296 - Prevention of Retaliatory Lawsuits (Lockhart) Please write to the HOUSE RULES COMMITTEE and ask them to: HOLD SB 32 - Marksmanship Tests for Concealed Carry (R. Allen) HOLD SB 37 - School Surveys (Montgomery) HOLD SB 200 - Civil Commitments (Montgomery) and especially... HOLD SB 72 4th Sub. - Restricted Persons (Spencer) Lists are available at: http://www.utguns.freeservers.com/legalerts022400.html ONLY ONE MORE DAY! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! Sarah - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 12:59:16 -0500 From: Chad Leigh Subject: cnn poll cnn has a poll about the NRAs influence in congress. Go vote no! http://www.cnn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 07:10:35 -0700 From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Another L. Neil Smith essay Getting Back at TV Propagandists by L. Neil Smith As a novelist, I have a higher soapbox to stand on than most when it comes to talking back to the enemies of liberty. Yet it makes me just as mad when ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, CNN, and NPR not only lie consistently and blatantly about the individual right to own and carry weapons, but insert their lies into "news" and programs billed as entertainment. It's been going on for decades. You know when a politician's lying - -- his mouth moves -- but broadcasters lie with a twitch of an eyebrow or the slant of a shoulder. They load questions for the "man in the street" and get the public to lie for them. They even lie by making sure the badguy in a series episode has rifles and game trophies on his wall. The most infuriating part is that you can't talk back. Broadcasters take advantage of the fact that any amateur, offered a chance to be on TV, is easily made to look foolish. Ask those who've tried: I give speeches where people laugh in all the right places and grown men have wept. The one occasion I tried replying to a TV editorial, I looked like Archie Bunker. Most anti-gun propaganda can't be dealt with in this manner anyway, because the other side's too dishonest to present it as a straightforward editorial. Since the Bill of Rights protects a broadcaster's freedom under the First Amendment to attack our freedom under the Second, the next thought that occurs to the irate viewer is to get back at propagandists through their wallets, boycotting programs or their sponsors. I've never been impressed with the tactic. True, you deprive the enemy of income; you also deprive yourself of whatever he produces, maybe something you really need. Sometimes it's worth a sacrifice, sometimes it isn't, and individual opinions always differ. The main problem is that for a boycott to be effective, you must persuade thousands, even millions of others to go along -- a lot of work and usually not very successful. No matter what this country's self-appointed political and religious leaders claim, self-sacrifice has never been what America is all about and it doesn't work as any kind of incentive. Robert Heinlein put it best when he said it's pointless to appeal to someone's "better nature". He may not have one. Better to appeal to his self-interest. Which is where my thoughts had led me many times (and dumped me out at what seemed the end of the line) when one day I asked myself the right question: if boycotts don't work, what's the opposite of a boycott? Obviously it isn't doing more business with the enemy. How about doing more business with whatever the enemy opposes? Call it a negative boycott. Since then, when I find myself subjected to anti-gun drivel disguised as "news" or "entertainment", I drop a quarter (or a dime, a nickel or a penny) into a coffee can I keep beside the chair where I watch TV. Given the rate at which propaganda fills the air, it's no time at all before the can fills up. When enough accumulates, I don't give it to the NRA or any other organization whose policies I neither control nor necessarily approve. I spend it the best way I know, in the free marketplace of ideas -- and hardware -- acquiring another gun I wouldn't otherwise have bought. Think about it: another gun you wouldn't otherwise have bought. Many benefits are generated this way with minimal effort and no pain. Appeal to the self-interest of enough gun owners, and hundreds of thousands -- maybe even millions -- of unforeseen gun purchases will occur. This will strengthen the firearms industry relative to the rest of the economy and even put some spine back into outfits who've taken the cowardly, historically discredited route of appeasing an oppressor. It didn't work with Hitler; why does Bill Ruger think it'll work with Hitler's spiritual kin, Howard Metzenbaum? Spotting anti-gun propaganda could make watching network TV interesting again -- a minor miracle in itself -- and might even develop into an educational game for the whole family. Kids would learn what the public schools never teach and desperately doesn't want them to know: ways to identify logical fallacies, fuzzy or missing verbs, and improperly weighted qualifiers in otherwise authoritative-sounding arguments about homelessness, urban street gangs, acid rain, ozone depletion, global warming, and the war on drugs. The primary effect will be felt by our opponents as their own soapboxes slowly dissolve under their feet. Even now, each time the greatest sporting-goods sales team in America -- Handgun Control Inc. -- open their mouths about gun control or push for new legislation, thousands of individuals go out and buy guns of all descriptions "before it's too late". Some estimate that the last flurry of semiauto hysteria sold a quarter of a million such weapons in Colorado alone. Until now, anti-gunners have encouraged the media to keep the public ignorant of this interesting, inconvenient effect. But as word of millions of coffee cans filling up with coins -- and suddenly being emptied -- gets around, an inexorable certainty that anti-gun propaganda actually causes more guns to be bought will put a damper on broadcasters' enthusiasm to saturate the air with lies. The best part (and most frustrating from the other side's point of view) is that nobody is in a position to think, speak, or act for you. It's your TV, your chair, your coffee can. In your home you're the only judge of what constitutes anti-gun propaganda. You decide how much to drop in the can. You're the ultimate beneficiary. So let your local TV stations -- and the networks -- know what you are doing. And do it. Then trust in liberal guilt to do the rest. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 10:43:49 -0700 From: Scott Bergeson Subject: Clinton seeks to end gun impasse What a ghoul! "Maybe this tragic death will help" - President Bill Clinton http://www.freep.com/news/kayla/ding3_20000303.htm Clinton seeks to end gun impasse But Dingell urges enforcement of existing laws March 3, 2000 BY MELANIE EVERSLEY FREE PRESS WASHINGTON STAFF WASHINGTON -- Seeking momentum on gun control from the Mt. Morris Township school shooting, President Bill Clinton has summoned congressional leaders to the White House in hopes of breaking an impasse on mandatory gun safety locks and gun-show background checks. "Maybe this tragic death will help," the president said Thursday, referring to Tuesday's fatal shooting of 6-year-old Kayla Rolland by a classmate using a stolen .32-caliber semiautomatic gun. But Rep. John Dingell of Dearborn, one of the staunchest Democratic defenders of gun rights, said Thursday too little is known about the shooting to form conclusions about what America should do to curb gun violence. "We don't know exactly what happened here," Dingell said. "At first, before you rush out to cure a disease, you have to diagnose it, and the ancient abjuration of the Hippocratic oath comes into play, which is, 'Do no harm.'" Dingell said the United States should better enforce its existing laws. In the meantime, he said, he will continue to support the rights of gun owners. Still, there was talk on Capitol Hill of compromise between Republicans and Democrats after months of inaction. "We'll take whatever we can agree on - -- gun shows, clips, safety locks," said Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D. "We're currently doing nothing." Rep. Henry Hyde, R-Ill., chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said: "We have a reasonable gun bill. If the Democrats want a bill, we can do it. If they want the issue, we'll have the issue." He said he was open to compromise. "I think the country wants legislation." Clinton is inviting congressional leaders to the White House on Tuesday to lobby for a juvenile-justice bill that includes gun-control measures. Congress deadlocked over the issue last session. During an appearance on the "Today" show Thursday morning, Clinton said better research on new gun technologies, more focus on parental responsibility and stricter gun-licensing measures might help curb gun violence. House and Senate members who debated the juvenile-justice bill last session, including U.S. Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., will be among those invited, but it wasn't decided as of Thursday afternoon whether Dingell would be among the guests, said White House spokeswoman Sarah Gegenheimer. Dingell said he would attend if invited. But he declined to predict what the meeting might accomplish. Similar caution was expressed Thursday by advocates on both sides of the gun debate, who have watched the issue simmer since the shooting at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., last spring. Although it is chiefly the Republican leadership in Congress that has fought against sweeping gun-control measures in a juvenile-justice bill, they have found an ally in Dingell, said Marie Carbone, director of congressional relations for Handgun Control, a pro-gun-control group in Washington. "His stance gave the Republican leadership the ability to say there are people on both sides of the aisle that are opposed to this," she said Thursday. "Everyone knows where Mr. Dingell stands on this, and he's in the minority of his party." The National Rifle Association, the premiere gun-rights organization based in Fairfax, Va., pointed out that the president opposed the package that went before Congress last summer. "Legislation could have passed last summer -- he was against it then," Trish Hylton, NRA spokeswoman, said Thursday. "Now he's saying the solution is trigger locks, and he never mentioned parenting or the atrocious conditions under which this child was living," Hylton added of the alleged 6-year-old shooter. Democrats killed the gun-control portion of the juvenile-justice bill in June after the House passed a provision, written by Dingell and backed by Republicans, that Democrats said weakened a measure requiring background checks on handgun buyers. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 12:20:22 -0800 From: Joe Waldron Subject: CITIBANK FOLDS The following was received by the Second Amendment Foundation on 3 March 2000: QUOTE Public Information CITIBANK MEDIA STATEMENT RE: SMALL FIREARMS BUSINESS POLICY March 2, 2000--In researching our recent interaction with the Nevada Pistol Academy, certain incvonsistencies were identified in our policies within the consumer bank. These have been corrected. Moving forward, our practice of assessing a prospective small business account on the basis of an evaluation of the individual business will apply uniformly across the consumer bank. Small businesses engaged in the manufacture or sale of small firearms will be evaluated in the same manner as any other small business, using the same standards such as creditworthiness and number of years in business. UNQUOTE - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 13:48:49 -0700 From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Ventilation Help Needed Jim Dexter and the USSC ask: - ----- Subject: LPU: FW: Ventilation Help Needed Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 13:27:33 -0700 From: "Jim Dexter" To: "LPUtah Forum" If you know of anyone who qualifies, please help this worthy cause . . . - ---------- USSC is sending this notice on behalf of the Utah Precision Marksmanship Society (UPMS), one of our affiliated organizations. They are looking for people with expertise in ventilation systems. Engineers, architects, sheet metal contractors, heating/air conditioning contractors or anyone else who can help with the design phase of work needed to meet recommended air flow standards. (Standards have been established by NRA range development engineers, and need to be applied to this facility). We need to get this done on a very urgent basis. The University of Utah will shut down the NRTOC range facility if the ventilation flow is not increased. This is one of the few indoor smallbore rifle and pistol facilities left on the east side of Salt Lake City. It is used by several clubs as well as the NROTC collegiate pistol team. If closed, these programs will probably stop due to lack of facilities. Closing down range facilities is a sneaky method used by anti-gun people to harass legitimate shooting sports. Thirty years ago nearly every high school and college in the state had their own indoor ranges and active marksmanship athletic programs. Now there are only two or three left. If you can help, or know someone else willing to help, please contact Matt DeLong (801)581-7462, or e-mail- delong@mail.physics.utah.edu If you cannot reach him, e-mail back to USSC. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 15:39:02 -0700 From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Gun-rights organizations at odds - ----- Subject: Gun-rights organizations at odds Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:12:44 EST From: Grandtime@aol.com A member of GOPConservatives has written an article for World News Daily regarding the NRA, GOA, and Sen. Hatch. Partial story below. Entire story at URL. Grandtime@aol.com (Rich Kuchinsky) http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_bresnahan/20000302_xex_gunrights_br.shtml Gun-rights organizations at odds Are Second Amendment groups shooting at each other? By David M. Bresnahan © 2000 WorldNetDaily.com In what could be called a classic case of "idealists versus realists," two of the nation's leading gun-rights organizations are at odds with each other over how best to safeguard Americans' constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Symptomatic of the division is the stunning division between the National Rifle Association and Gun Owners of America over U.S. Sen. Orrin Hatch, R.-Utah. The NRA regards Hatch as one of the true congressional heroes for his past efforts on behalf of Second Amendment issues, while rival GOA regards Hatch as a "compromiser" -- and is even talking about trying to unseat him in his upcoming re-election bid. Hatch is the powerful chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, where many gun bills must first receive a hearing. GOA Executive Director Larry Pratt told WorldNetDaily that Hatch has voted in favor of many gun control laws while claiming to be a supporter of gun rights. In fact, Pratt recently sent.... - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 15:44:43 -0700 From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: JPFO Blasts AJC for 'Ghetto Jew Mentality' in School Shooting - ----- Subject: JPFO Blasts AJC for 'Ghetto Jew Mentality' in School Shooting Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 12:22:56 -0600 From: "JPFO" To: JPFO Blasts AJC for 'Ghetto Jew Mentality' in School Shooting U.S. Newswire 3 Mar 10:55 Jewish Group Blasts AJC for 'Ghetto Jew Mentality' in Grade School Killing To: National Desk Contact: Aaron Zelman of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership Inc., 800-869-1884; e-mail: jpfo@execpc.com; Website: http://www.jpfo.org HARTFORD, Wis., March 3 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) strongly denounced the March 1 statement issued by the American Jewish Congress (AJC) which called for more federal victim disarmament laws. The AJC's statement, responding to the Feb. 29 Michigan grade school killing, demanded "tough gun control legislation" as the remedy. Speaking for JPFO, Aaron Zelman called the AJC's demand an example of "ghetto Jew mentality." "Turning to a secular central government to solve a parenting problem shows how morally bankrupt the AJC position is," said Zelman, JPFO's executive director. "Judaism is about timeless moral values and strong family structures -- not about calling in the federal government every time somebody commits a crime." "By agitating for more victim disarmament laws, the AJC works against Jewish values. Jews, like everyone else, have a duty to protect and defend themselves and their families against violence," Zelman noted. "Turning to a non-Jewish secular government to save everyone from crime violates Jewish principles -- it's making the state your god." Zelman challenged the AJC to affirm traditional values and morals. "I don't see the AJC actively working to preserve the Jewish principles of fundamental respect for human life, punishment of wrongdoers, and clear moral training of children. The AJC wants the federal government to prevent honest citizens from having the tools for self-protection, yet the AJC does nothing to knit the social fabric around God's laws." Anticipating a flurry of calls for victim disarmament laws, Zelman criticized the lobbyists who "advance the political agenda called 'gun control' on the bodies of dead children." He also noted that the Mount Morris grade school tragedy would get national media attention, while the thousands of cases of children being protected by armed defenders go unreported. "According to Florida State University Professor Gary Kleck's research, firearms are used to prevent crime nearly 2 million times per year. Firearms misuse is comparatively rare but grabs the headlines," Zelman said. With the AJC's advocating more federal victim disarmament, Zelman observed that "the AJC ignores both Jewish morality and the importance of armed self-defense. Historically, that combination has been lethal for Jews. The AJC certainly demolishes the image that Jews are smart." - -0- /U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/ 03/03 10:55 Copyright 2000, U.S. Newswire - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #182 ***********************************