From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #200 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Sunday, January 14 2001 Volume 02 : Number 200 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 10:06:19 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: Proposed Utah CCW Changes Looks like some troubling info... ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Email Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control - --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: James L. Mayhugh I received the following letter from Utah BCI, note that they are considering a requirement that all CCW instructor be residents of Utah. I ask all parties interested in obtaining a CCW to write today, expressing your strong preference for the continued certification of non-resident instructors. There are many non-residents that will simply forego getting a Utah non-resident CFp if they have to take additional time off to travel to Utah. This can only hurt the shal issue CCW effort. quote: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------- **Urgent Notice ** Proposed Rule Changes The Division has proposed several changes to the Concealed Firearm Permit Rule (R724-4) that will directly impact all firearms instructors. Utah law requires the Division to notify all "interested parties" thirty days in advance of the date that the proposed rules would go into effect. Interested parties are given the thirty day period to offer comment on the proposed rule changes. In this case the proposed rules may go into affect on January 3, 2001. Comments on the proposed rules must be submitted to BCI in writing and be received no later than January 2, 2001. Comments should be submitted to: The Bureau of Criminal Identification c/o Nathan Smith 3888 W. 5400 So. Box 148280 Salt Lake City UT 84114-8280. A brief summary of the proposed rule changes is as follows. First, a new section (R724-4- 15) will be added to prohibit the wearing of unauthorized badges by permit holders and firearms instructors. Wearing any badge or identification or making any statements that imply affiliation with Federal, State or local governmental entities will be prohibited. A second change will add a requirement that all firearms instructors be residents of Utah. Next, the proposed rule would require firearms instructor applicants to submit a photocopy of identification with their application. Finally, a provision would be added to require firearms instructors to re-certify every two years at a cost of $5.00. The provision for re-certification will be helpful to the Division for the purpose of keeping the training guidelines current. It will also allow the Division to ensure that all instructors continue to be eligible to possess firearms by requiring a new background check every two years during the re-certification process. A full text of the proposed changes to Administrative Rule R724-4 are available upon request from BCI. Contact Nathan Smith by phone 801.965.4552, fax 801.965.4749 or email nsmith@dps.state.ut.us for a copy of the proposed rules. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------- Regards, James L. Mayhugh GMJ Enterprises http:/www.gmj.com CCW Forums http://www.ccwforums.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 10:56:53 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: FW: Poll on Guns in the workplace We're not losing this one by any means, but the support for our ability to defend ourselves isn't as strong as it could be. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Email Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control - --------- Forwarded message ---------- Ogden Standard Examiner is conducting a poll on the AOL action of firing three gun owners for having guns in the parking lot. You may want to express your opinion: http://www1.standard.net/se_news/todayed.asp ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 22:47:47 -0700 From: "Scott Bergeson" Subject: Stifling Antigun Dems Posted on another list: - ----- Subject: Re: The fat lady whispers Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 13:57:19 +0900 From: "Tom Bridgeland" To: "Multiple recipients of LRT Discussions Mailing list" A point that needs to be stressed, the Dems just lost big time. 500 Dem voters in Florida who listened to the NRA lost Gore the election. They need scapegoats now and a push from us might get them to turn on each other. I suggest a letter campaign to the Democratic National Headquarters, or whatever it is called, demanding that they provide us with candidates we can vote for. Mention how much it hurt to have to vote republican this time, but say that you will do it again if you have to, until they get the message. Shut up about Guns. Stop the noisy anti gun nuts in your ranks, stifle them, shut them out, sideline them. They cost you the election. If you have a dem representative/senator, write to him to with the same message. Don't let them forget why they lost, and repeat that the answer is not to attack the NRA, but to get with the majority of the people on this one , and stop trying to ram home unpopular laws. hunter@mva.net wrote: >>Should we have faith that truth will win in the end? Should we work at >>cultural and educational levels? Should we have patience, for generations >>if need be? Well, maybe, yes and I doubt we have that long in this country. >Not as such, perhaps. But ultimately, no matter what happens to the >institution currently known as the united States of America, freedom will >flower again somewhere. Its up to us to coax it to do so again here. > >>Perhaps yours is the only formula for the success of the people we identify >>as our side. I doubt it would be a success for our ideas or for freedom. >>Maybe I'm all wet and we can safely use their tools for our purposes. But >>even in victory, I think I would loathe to wallow in their filth. >What is so dishonest about demanding that our employees do as they're told? >This is a simple use it or lose it situation. The gummint exists, this is a >fact which cannot be ignored. They're going to listen to SOMEBODY whether >we like it or not. I'd much rather they be shaking their head and saying >"we'd better keep these gun-nuts happy, damnit, or they're going to cost me >my next election" than saying the same thing about my communist/statist/ >democrat/fascist/socialist opponents. There's a reason GW is making >socialist noises - that's the noise he's hearing. Give him some loud and >unmistakable freedom noises to blend into, and like any other gutless >chameleon he'll take on that coloration. That was the whole point of >electing him, after all - and he might surprise us under those conditions, >who knows? >--- >Hunter's Seventy Seventh Rule: The measure of the menace > of a man is not what hardware he carries, > but what ideas he believes. Ceterum censeo fiscum delendum esse - --- >= LIBERTY ROUND TABLE DISCUSSIONS LIST (http://www.vader.com/lrtdiscuss) >= >= TO POST TO THE LIST: send mail to lrt-discuss@vader.com >= TO SUBSCRIBE TO LIST: send mail to lrt-discuss-request@vader.com >= TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM LIST: send mail to lrt-discuss-drop@vader.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:16:05 -0700 From: "Scott Bergeson" Subject: Ban a Gun - Go to Jail A reminder for the upcoming legislative session. - ----- http://www.webleyweb.com/lneil/banagun.html Ban a Gun - Go to Jail by L. Neil Smith The Constitution, without qualification, states that the individual right to own and carry weapons will not be infringed. Title 18, U.S. Code, Sections 241 and 242 http://www.webleyweb.com/lneil/18usc.html, ordains as a crime the violation of anybody's civil rights. Part of the XIVth Amendment requires removal of any politician who defies the Constitution, barring him (or her) from public office in perpetuity. And, of course, betraying one's oath of office is perjury, which is a felony. By attempting to ban semiautomatic weapons (or weapons of any sort), city authorities in Dayton, Ohio and Rochester, New York have broken all these laws. It's possible that conspiracy and racketeering statutes apply to their illicit activities, as well. We all know how slight the chances are that any of these miscreants will be prosecuted for having violated our natural, fundamental, inalienable human, civil, and Constitutional rights under the current political circumstances. So do they, or they wouldn't have broken the law. However as students of history, we also know that political circumstances change -- a fact they seem to have overlooked. If they can't be prosecuted now, why not a year from now? If they can't be prosecuted a year from now, why not four years from now? And if they can't be prosecuted four years from now, why not twenty? Simon Wiesenthal never gave up on the Nazis. Why should we -- who feel that the Bill of Rights is all that keeps America from becoming the world's biggest banana republic - ever give up on the Dayton or Rochester perpetrators, or on any public servant who introduces, sponsors, or votes for gun control? Perhaps more to the point at the moment: why should we have any more regard for any law they pass than they have for the highest law of the land supposedly governing us -- and them -- already? Von Clausewitz, the eminent Prussian strategist, said you should always give the enemy a way out, so he won't fight like a trapped animal and be likelier to retreat. So what can these criminals in Dayton and Rochester do to avoid weeks, months, and possibly years of looking over their shoulders, waiting for the long arm of the highest law of the land to seize, humiliate, and punish them? Three things: they must repeal the offending legislation; they must resign from office immediately afterward; and they must promise, publicly and in writing, never to seek or hold public office again. Meanwhile, we can offer them a few words of advice: don't listen to the torrent of lies spewed out by Sarah Brady and her fascist front-group. Don't let that pickle-faced harridan and her tent-revival meat-puppet get you into more trouble. Her First Amendment rights are unimpaired by any oath of office to uphold the Constitution and she's not going to jail when the reckoning comes due. You are. L. Neil Smith is the award-winning author of 19 books including The Probability Broach, The Crystal Empire, Henry Martyn, The Lando Calrissian Adventures, Pallas, and (forthcoming) Bretta Martyn. An NRA Life Member and founder of the Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus, he has been active in the Libertarian movement for 34 years and is its most prolific and widely-published living novelist. Permission to redistribute this article is herewith granted by the author -- provided that it is reproduced unedited, in its entirety, and appropriate credit given. Talk to me!: mailto:lneil@ezlink.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:58:50 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Disbanding of Utah Militia While there are, doubtless, changes that ought to be made to our militia law in this State, I don't see how disbanding it completely is a good thing. Thoughts? From today's SLTrib : Utah May Disband Its Militia Friday, December 22, 2000 BY PAUL FOY THE ASSOCIATED PRESS In 1941, Utah Gov. Herbert Maw created a state militia to defend Utah from "the ravages of foreign enemies within our borders." But Utah never had a need for a militia and nobody was drafted into it. Legislators now are moving to disband the Utah Defense Force. "It was never used. We just felt it was archaic," Rep. Neal Hendrickson, D-West Valley City, said Thursday. "There's always the National Guard the governor can call out. I don't think there would be a need for a militia," said Hendrickson, sponsor of repeal legislation. It's part of a larger effort in the Legislature to clean up the Utah Code. An interim government operations committee has voted to abolish 15 obsolete laws, removing more than 350 dusty pages from the state code. At the time, the Utah Defense Force may have seemed like a sensible precaution. The European War was under way and Japan was occupying Indochina, though Pearl Harbor had yet to be attacked, triggering U.S. involvement in World War II. Maw introduced the idea almost as an aside during a second session of the 1941 Legislature to pay off some debt and take care of unfinished business. In May of that year, Maw waited until the end of an address to the Legislature to bring up the defense force. He asked for a militia "in order that our people and industries might be preserved from the ravages of foreign enemies within our borders and in order that Utah might be in a position to cooperate fully with national government." It played no role in rounding up Japanese-Americans during World War II because that was a federal action, said Max Evans, director of the Division of State History. The Topaz internment camp in Utah's West Desert held nearly 8,000 Japanese-Americans, nearly all from California, starting in 1942. Evans says he knows next to nothing about the Utah Defense Force. "It sounds like a very interesting story," he said. "I suspect we may have some things in our collections." The law gave Maw carte blanche to enlist for a year or more any "able-bodied" Utah citizen for a force that would be in addition to the National Guard but paid similarly to the guard. The job of the Utah Defense Force was to go "in fresh pursuit of insurrectionists, saboteurs [and] enemies or enemy forces," even into other states. Membership in the Utah Defense Force did not exempt men from the U.S. draft. Hendrickson said he expected the Utah Legislature to disband the defense force in January in an uncontroversial vote. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Email Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:01:21 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: FW: Early Christmas Gift for Liberty--Philadelphia suit against gun makers dismissed Suit Against Gun Makers Dismissed PHILADELPHIA (AP) _ A lawsuit the city filed against gun makers to recoup the costs resulting from gun violence was negated by an earlier state law, said a judge who dismissed the suit. A 1995 law and an amendment four years later stripped Philadelphia and other municipalities of the power to either regulate or sue gun makers, U.S. District Judge Berle M. Schiller said Wednesday. The authority to regulate firearms lies exclusively with the state Legislature, he wrote. The city is reviewing Schiller's ruling and is ``quite likely'' to appeal, City Solicitor Kenneth I. Trujillo said. Philadelphia filed its lawsuit April 11, joining more than 30 cities and counties that have sued gun manufacturers. Several of those lawsuits have been dismissed. AP-NY-12-21-00 0349EST ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Email Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 16:31:22 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: [UTGOA] BCI rules change CANCELLED! ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Email Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control - --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sarah Thompson To: utgoa@egroups.com Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 14:43:33 -0700 THANKS to all of you who wrote to the Bureau of Criminal Identification (BCI) to protest the proposed rules changes. The good news is that these changes have now been withdrawn, and will NOT go into effect next month! The rules changes included the following: 1. All concealed carry instructors will be required to be Utah residents. Utah Gun Owners Alliance opposes this rule. It would effectively disarm many Utahns who are living out of state due to school, military, and job obligations. It would also disarm most tourists to our state. 2. All concealed carry instructors will be required to re-certify every two years. Each instructor will have to submit a notarized application form, a copy of photo ID, a copy of a current course of instruction, and $5. Every two years seems excessive, since permits and drivers licenses are good for 5 years. This would also open the door to mandatory government retraining, as we saw during the last legislative session. 3. The proposed rules prohibit an instructor from wearing badges or identification cards, or making any statements that would imply that s/he "is connected in any way with the federal government or any state or local governmental entity". While UTGOA agrees with BCI that instructors should not misrepresent themselves or their qualifications, we believe this rule needs clarification, as it would adversely affect law enforcement officers and others who legitimately teach concealed carry classes. 4. The proposed rules clarify the definition of "violent crime". UTGOA has no objection to this clarification, provided that the legislature remains solely responsible for defining crimes and prohibited persons. 5. The proposed rules clarify that the permit renewal period is five years, includes the fees set by the legislature, and allows payment options other than cash, money order, or cashier's check. UTGOA supports these clarifications, and appreciates BCI's efforts to make permit renewal easier and more convenient for CCW permittees. Concealed carry makes Utah a safer place, and anything that encourages lawful carry benefits everyone - except criminals! UTGOA was especially concerned that our concealed carry instructor laws were being changed, not by the legislature, but by unelected administrators. We believe that all legislation should be enacted by our elected representatives who are accountable to us. BCI received letters and emails from all over the country protesting these rules! (Thanks to the good folks at Sierra Times and KeepAndBearArms.com for their assistance in spreading the word!) UTGOA spoke with Sgt. Ron Stallworth today to follow up on the proposed rules changes. According to Sgt. Stallworth, the proposed rules changes have been withdrawn, and there is no plan to pursue them further this year. Sgt. Stallworth attributes the change to administrative changes at the Department of Public Safety (DPS) and BCI. (BCI is a division of DPS.) Commissioner of Public Safety, Craig L. Dearden, has retired and will be replaced next month by St. George police chief Robert L. Flowers. Sgt. Stallworth has just taken on the job of supervisor in the firearms section, which deals with concealed carry permits and instructors. UTGOA believes your letters and emails helped to convince BCI that the above rules deserve further study, and that any changes should be discussed first with gun rights organizations. Sgt. Stallworth expressed his intention to work with Utah's gun owners, concealed carry permittees, and CCW instructors in a friendly and cooperative manner. He does not believe (nor does UTGOA!) that BCI and gun owners should be "enemies". Utah Gun Owners Alliance and Sgt. Stallworth plan to meet in January to discuss how we can work together more productively. Thanks to all of you who wrote to BCI, and thanks also to the folks at BCI for recognizing that the proposed rules should not be implemented by a new administration without further review and input from gun owners. For more information about BCI, see http://www.bci.state.ut.us/default.html. The site has a lot of excellent information as well as applications for permits that you can download and print. Utah Gun Owners Alliance is grateful for your support during the past year and wishes all of you, and your loved ones, very Happy Holidays! PLEASE SUPPORT UTAH GUN OWNERS ALLIANCE! JOIN US TODAY! Did someone forward this to you? Please SUBSCRIBE NOW! That way you'll receive our FREE alerts as soon as they're released. During the upcoming legislative session, we will be sending urgent, time limited alerts. Don't risk missing important information because someone else neglected to forward important information. Our alerts are low volume and average less than one alert per day. To subscribe to the UTGOA list, send a blank email to utgoa-subscribe at egroups.com or use the form on our web site, http://www.utgoa.org. For more information, see http://www.egroups.com/group/UTGOA. UTGOA is written and distributed by, Utah Gun Owners Alliance, www.utgoa.org, and Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to Director@utgoa.org. Thanks! Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made, UTGOA is clearly credited, and this message is left intact. Archives of the UTGOA alerts can be found at: http://www.egroups.com/messages/UTGOA ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 11:31:37 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Utah Police kill 15 in 1999 From today's SLTrib last paragraph of story: "Police in Utah played a role in 15 civilian deaths in 1999. Four of those incidents involved Salt Lake City officers. " While I certainly hope and expect that most of those 15 were fully justified, I'm sure that at least a few were...shall we say questionable. Now, how many questionable shootings did we have by CCW permit holders in 1999? In 2000? Zip, zero, nada!!!! It's time we quite putting up with all this nonesense about CCW permitees needing to be disarmed in public schools and subjected to a Statewide ban in churches. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Email Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:59:29 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Blind N.D. man gets CCW permit Great article in today's Desnews. Full article at , excerpts below. FARGO, N.D. — Carey McWilliams has a concealed weapons permit from the state of North Dakota and isn't afraid to use a gun — even though he's blind. McWilliams, a 27-year-old North Dakota State University graduate student, says the permit, issued in September, is for protection. "If you choose this blind victim, you might end up dead," McWilliams said. "He completed the background check, so the county and city were comfortable with him getting the permit," [deputy] Healey said. Healey said McWilliams was "very competent" with a handgun. [Friend] Steffan said it is hard for most people to understand how vulnerable McWilliams can feel. "We think he can't aim," she said. "The fact that somebody might have his fingers around Carey's throat doesn't enter our heads." ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Email Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 20:55:40 -0700 From: "Scott Bergeson" Subject: A Special Message from Sarah Thompson While I have difficulty understanding the apparent necessity for a multiplicity of RKBA lists in Utah, Sarah Thompson and the Utah Gun Owners Alliance appear quite effective, as well as correctly principled in influencing the Utah State government. Scott On Thu, 04 Jan 2001 16:54:56 -0700 Sarah Thompson wrote: Utah Gun Owners Alliance PO Box 1185, Sandy, UT 84091 Phone: 801-566-1625 E-Mail: mailto:Director@utgoa.org http://www.utgoa.org *** A Special Message from Sarah Thompson, Executive Director of Utah Gun Owners Alliance *** Dear Fellow American: It happened in Nazi Germany about 60 years ago. It happened in Australia in 1996. It happened in England in 1997. It has even happened in New York City, New York. Now it's coming to California. First, gun registration. Then, gun confiscation. Will Utah be next? In our state legislature, anti-gunners are still on the offensive toward their goal of a complete ban on private firearms ownership. As you may know, Utah Gun Owners Alliance is the no-compromise gun rights lobby organization supported by hundreds of pro-gun friends across Utah - and even other states. Our position on gun control is: It's not Constitutional. And to make sure politicians get the message, we work with grass roots pro-gun activists. Utah Gun Owners Alliance and our members have no problem saying to the legislators who want to sell out our rights, "Don't tread on me and my gun rights." At the Capitol, and elsewhere, Utah Gun Owners Alliance fights legislative battles to protect your gun rights. However, sometimes the best defense is a good offense. Utah Gun Owners Alliance staff and members have been working with state legislators to repeal laws that force gun owners to get a permission slip in order to carry a gun concealed. We are on the offensive to push for a "Vermont-style" concealed carry law that simply says every law abiding citizen has the right to carry a gun concealed. There are no government hoops, no fingerprints, no mandatory training classes, no forms, no licenses, and no fees. This is Utah Gun Owners Alliance's position: NO GUN CONTROL ALLOWED. PERIOD. Now it's time to take that aggressive offensive approach to reclaiming our gun rights to the legislative battles in our upcoming legislative session. Will you join the effort? I AM ASKING YOU TO JOIN OUR FREE LEGISLATIVE ALERT AND ACTION NETWORK -- THE UTAH GUN OWNERS ALLIANCE E-MAIL ALERTS. E-mail Alert participants receive timely communication alerts via e-mail when there are bills or other actions being considered in our state capital. As a participant, you'll get the facts you need to let the politicians know just where you -- the pro-gun voter -- stand and what the politician must do. Your action will apply pressure to legislators when they need it the most. Together with other gun rights supporters, you and I can make legislators "feel the heat" until they "see the light." It is true that petitioning an elected official is a powerful legislative tool. Elected officials fear angry voters. That is why grass roots action is so powerful. It reminds elected officials that they are there to serve the people and will be held accountable by the people. This approach WORKS! As a result of Utah Gun Owners Alliance's efforts, 21 anti-gun politicians retired or were removed from office last year, including such anti-gun ideologues as Rep. Dave Jones and Sen. Scott Howell. And only 5 of 17 anti-gun bills passed. We can do better. But when push comes to shove, politics is a numbers game. Hundreds mean more than tens, and thousands mean more than hundreds. That is why I am asking you to subscribe, right now, to Utah Gun Owners Alliance's E-Mail Alerts. Each person counts. You can make the difference. It's easy to subscribe. Here's how: Send an e-mail message to mailto:utgoa-subscribe@egroups.com After you send Utah Gun Owners Alliance a request to subscribe, you should shortly thereafter receive a confirmation e-mail from our office. If you encounter any difficulties, please let me know at mailto:Director@utgoa.org After that, you will receive alerts as they become necessary. I hope that you will subscribe to Utah Gun Owners Alliance's E-Mail Alerts. As you can tell, there is nothing to lose -- it is a free service. All I ask is that you try to take the requested action in the alerts you receive. The volume of mail is very low -- this is not a news service. Also, please know that your e-mail address will remain confidential. If you would like more information you may call our main phone number 801-566-1625 and request an information brochure on Utah Gun Owners Alliance or you may e-mail your request to: mailto:Director@utgoa.org. You may also visit our Web Site at http://www.utgoa.org. Make sure you read our 2000 Year in Review to learn more about our fight for our gun rights. I look forward to hearing from you. Sincerely, Sarah Thompson, M.D. Executive Director Utah Gun Owners Alliance PO Box 1185 Sandy, UT 84091 E-Mail: mailto:Director@utgoa.org http://www.utgoa.org PS: Our legislative session starts January 15. Please join Utah Gun Owners Alliance free email alerts now so you will have the latest information to defend our precious right to keep and bear arms. For more on what we do, see http://www.utgoa.org/pages/year2000.html, the Utah Gun Owners Alliance 2000 Year in Review. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 21:58:27 -0700 From: Scott Bergeson Subject: Discussing the issues: it's how you say it Discussing the issues: it's how you say it - ---------- by Alfred A. Hambidge Jr. Some tips on how to talk sensibly with family, friends and colleagues about gun control without coming off like a "right-wing wacko gun nut." (1/2/01) http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=1684 - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 11:10:46 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Support of RKBA paying off I certainly don't want anyone to get the idea that we've won and thus let down their efforts, but it is nice to see that the efforts of many individuals and groups to stop infringments of our RKBA are starting to pay off. Please keep up the contact with your legislators. If they support us, support them. If they don't, let them know there will be a political price to pay at convention, in primaries, and in the general election. Full article in Sunday's DesNews at http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,245012518,00.html?>. A few notable excerpts below: A year ago, Utah lawmakers were considering 39 pieces of legislation dealing with guns — whether to ban them from schools and churches, how to ensure safe storage, how to keep them from criminals and the mentally ill. This year there is only one gun bill on the public list of legislation being prepared. No gun-control bill has yet to be formally introduced, with the session's start just a week away. But while lawmakers aren't as focused on gun issues as they were a year ago, citizens still support banning all guns from schools — one of the main debate topics in the 2000 Legislature. A new Deseret News/KSL-TV poll shows that 69 percent of Utahns favor banning guns in schools, even guns carried by legally permitted, law-abiding citizens. Pollster Dan Jones & Associates found that 27 percent of Utahns oppose such a law, while 5 percent didn't know. Those new poll results track fairly closely to previous surveys on gun control taken by the newspaper and TV station over the past two years. ... Republicans hold heavy majorities in the Utah House and Senate. And Nash said gun-control issues are really about internal GOP politics. "It comes down to the Republican (incumbents). And they have to get past the right wing of their party in their (party) conventions. And the fact is, if they support reasonable gun control, they won't win re-election," Nash said. While Democrats have little success in sponsoring gun bills, Republicans also have problems. In the 2000 session, Sen. Terry Spencer, R-Layton, an attorney, tried unsuccessfully to draft a bill that would have pushed those with violent misdemeanor convictions into a gun-purchase screening requirement. He gave up after strong opposition from gun-rights advocates, and he won't be trying to run a similar bill this session. "That was the governor's idea. I was just carrying water for him, and he doesn't want to do that again. So I won't," Spencer said. At the end of the week, the only weapons bill on the agenda was Sen. Paula Julander's child firearm access prevention measure, a bill that she filed a year ago aimed at penalizing gun owners who don't secure their weapons in a way that keeps children from getting at them. That bill failed to make it out of the Senate Rules Committee for consideration in the 2000 session. - ---------------- Charles Hardy ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:53:00 -0700 From: "Scott Bergeson" Subject: AOL's HR friends seek dismissal Guns in the workplace battle heating up - ---------- by Tim Gurrister A group of Utah human resource managers employing high-powered legal help has filed a friend-of-the-court brief seeking dismissal of the America Online gun-rights lawsuit, which if successful would confirm gun owners' right to carry concealed weapons onto private property. (1/9/00) http://www1.standard.net/stories/local/01-2001/FTP0144@local@09aol@Ogden.asp - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:16:03 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: [UTGOA] 1-14: AOL Lawsuit will proceed! - ---------------- Charles Hardy - --------- Forwarded message ---------- Good news on the gun rights front! The three former AOL employees who are suing AOL because they were fired for having guns in their cars in the parking lot will be allowed to continue their lawsuit. If they win, they will set a precedent supporting the rights of Utah's law abiding gun owners. Please write letters to your local newspapers expressing your support for this law suit. No one should have to choose between his job and the right to defend his or her life. Salt Lake Tribune letters@sltrib.com Deseret News letters@desnews.com Standard Examiner letters@standard.net http://www.sltrib.com/01142001\utah\62435.htm Dismissal Denied in AOL Case, Employees fired for having guns in parking lot can sue Sunday, January 14, 2001 BY LESLIE MITCHELL THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE A judge in Weber County's 2nd District Court has refused a request by America Online to dismiss a lawsuit filed by three former employees of its Ogden call center who were fired for possessing guns in the company's parking lot. Judge Roger S. Dutson said too many questions regarding the termination of Luke Hansen, Paul Carlson and Jason Melling remain for him to grant the request filed by the nation's largest Internet service provider. The case is being watched closely by gun rights advocates, anti-gun activists and large employers. AOL is among several national corporations that ban employees from carrying weapons while on company property. America Online had argued that the three employees it fired last year had agreed to the company's no-weapons policy when they were hired. The company also has argued that under Utah's at-will employment statute, it is free to fire workers, as long as the action does not violate public interest, such as in whistle-blower cases. Like other employers that ban guns from their property, AOL ultimately contends allowing some employees to carry firearms to work endangers the safety of other workers. The former employees, who are seeking undisclosed damages, say that Utah's gun laws allow concealed weapons permit holders to carry their firearms to work, even if the company they work for is privately held. Concealed-weapons permits, issued by the state, do not allow Utahns to carry firearms in airports, jails and courthouses, however. The three men were fired four days after they met in a parking lot outside AOL before driving to a shooting range in Eden. On that day, Melling and Carlson carried two rifles and two pistols from their cars to Hansen's truck. Those four weapons were unloaded and the firearms, with the exception of one rifle, were in cases. At the time, Hansen and Carlson held concealed-carry permits issued by the state of Utah; Melling was in the process of getting one. Hansen, one of the three people fired by AOL, said the case is an important test of Utah's gun laws. "Every hunter in Utah has driven to work with his gun in his truck so he can go hunting after work," he said after filing the lawsuit. "So we're looking for clarification to say, yeah, state law says we can do this, or no, if it's interpreted another way, that we can't." Copyright 2000, Utah Gun Owners Alliance and Sarah Thompson PO Box 1185 Sandy, UT 84091 801-566-1625 http://www.utgoa.org Director@utgoa.org PLEASE SUPPORT UTAH GUN OWNERS ALLIANCE! JOIN US TODAY! Did someone forward this to you? Please SUBSCRIBE NOW! That way you'll receive our FREE alerts as soon as they're released. During the upcoming legislative session, we will be sending urgent, time limited alerts. Don't risk missing important information because someone else neglected to forward important information. Our alerts are low volume and average less than one alert per day. To subscribe to the UTGOA list, send a blank email to utgoa-subscribe@egroups.com or use the form on our web site, http://www.utgoa.org. For more information, see http://www.egroups.com/group/UTGOA. UTGOA is written and distributed by, Utah Gun Owners Alliance, www.utgoa.org, and Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made, UTGOA is clearly credited, and this message is left intact. Archives of the UTGOA alerts can be found at: http://www.egroups.com/messages/UTGOA To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: UTGOA-unsubscribe@egroups.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #200 ***********************************