From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #202 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Tuesday, January 30 2001 Volume 02 : Number 202 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:09:28 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: FW: Education/Guns/Rape correlation you will never see in the Media Not specifically mentioned in the account below, is that the training class--and the fact that large numbers of women participated and were thus trained and prepared to use their firearms--was widely publicized in the local press. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Email Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control - --------- Forwarded message ---------- In Orlando, Florida, in 1966 a series of brutal rapes swept the community. Citizens reacted to the tripling in the rate of rape over the previous year by buying handguns for self-defense; 200-300 firearms were being purchased each week from dealers, and an unknown number more from private parties. The newspaper there, the _Orlando Sentinel Star_, had an anti-gun editorial stance and tried to pressure the local police chief and city government to stop the flow of arms. When that tactic failed, the paper decided that in the interest of public safety, they would sponsor a gun-training seminar in conjunction with the local police. Plans were made for a one-day training course at a local city park. Plans were made for an expected 400-500 women. However, more than 2500 women arrived, and brought with them every conceivable kind of firearm. They had to park many blocks away, and the weapons were carried in in purses, paper bags, boxes, briefcases, holsters, and womens' hands. One police officer present said he'd never been so scared in his life. Swamped, the organizers hastily dismissed the women with promises for a more thorough course with scheduled appointments. The course offered was for three classes/week, and within 6 months, the Orlando police had trained more than 6000 women in basic pistol marksmanship and the law of self-defense. The results? In 1966 there were 36 rapes in Orlando, triple the 1965 rate. In 1967, there were 4. Before the training, rape rates had been increasing in Orlando as nationwide. Five years after the training, rape was still below pre-training levels in Orlando, but up 308% in the surrounding areas, 96% for Florida overall, and 64% nationally. Also in 1967, violent assault and burglary decreased by 25% in Orlando, in addition to the rape reductions. In 1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD FIRED HER WEAPON in self-defense. In 1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD TURNED HER GUN ON HER HUSBAND OR BOYFRIEND. [No data were available for later years at the time the above was written; --MAC] The reason the program worked so spectacularly well is that it was widely known that Orlando women had the means and training to defend themselves from attackers. Rapists, being (somewhat) human, they are learning engines; they took their business elsewhere -- to the detriment of the defenseless in those other locations * In Florida since the gun laws have been modified to allow women who qualify to carry a gun concealed, the reported rape rate has DROPPED by 90%. - -- "As government regulations grow slowly, we become used to the harness. Habit is a powerful force, and we no longer feel as intensely as we once would have [the] constriction of our liberties that would have been utterly intolerable a mere half century ago." --Judge Robert Bork LPUTAH LPUTAH -- unsubscribe: LPUtah-unsubscribe@egroups.com LPUTAH -- support: elwell@inconnect.com LPUTAH -- forum page: http://www.egroups.com/group/LPUtah LPUTAH -- LPUtah page: www.lputah.org LPUTAH ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:03:01 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: [UTGOA] Committee hearings THURSDAY Again, apologies for the last minute nature of this message. If at all possible, turn out or call the legislators below and ask them to support HB 179. I personnaly believe this may be the single most important--and ultimately far reaching--bill we could pass this session when it comes to our RKBA. Why? The UEA not only directly attacks our gun rights, but if you follow the money, you will find that most of the worst anti-gun legislators--in both parties--were elected to office using UEA money. Most of that UEA money is currently contributed--somewhat unwillingly or unwittingly--by your friends, neighbors, or even family members who are very much supportive of RKBA and do not support the UEA's political agenda but are members because of the need teachers have for the various protections and services the union offers to them in other areas. HB 179 would make it much easier for these good people to not contribute towards political campaigns they oppose while still preserving everyone's right to make contributions to campaigns and efforts (including the union PACs if they want to) they do support. If we can free people from contributing money they don't want to to the UEA's direct and indirect campaigns against our RKBA, we'll find that not only do the direct attacks slow down, but that the make up of the legislature could very well change to include far fewer people who are not solidly supportive of this important right. - ---------------- Charles Hardy - --------- Forwarded message ---------- THREE bills will have public meetings tomorrow! HB 179 - VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTIONS ACT - BENNION WILL BE HEARD BY THE HOUSE EDUCATION COMMITTEE THURSDAY AT 3 PM IN ROOM 129. UTGOA POSITION: STRONG SUPPORT HB 179 requires labor organizations to establish a separate fund for political purposes, and prohibits payroll deductions for contributions to this political fund. It also requires labor organizations to clearly state that such funds are to be used for political purposes and that contributions are voluntary. UTGOA thinks the bill needs some minor amendments, but first it needs to survive its committee hearing. Why is this important to gun owners? The UEA uses our tax dollars to collect funds from its members. These funds are then used to advance the UEA's political agenda. And the UEA donated $2500 to fund the ballot initiative to ban guns in schools and churches. For more on this problem, see the excellent article "Taxpayers Shouldn't Pay for Lobbyists' Activities", by Paul Mero of the Sutherland Institute at http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/point/012401.html HB 179 will be heard by the House Education Committee THURSDAY at 3 PM in Room 129. Please plan to attend. And please contact members of the committee this evening to ask them to support HB 179. Please also contact Rep. Bennion to thank him for running this important bill. You can clip and send the following: Subject: Vote YES on HB 179 Dear Members of the House Education Committee: I am writing to ask you to SUPPORT HB 179, Voluntary Contributions Act. This bill would require that funds donated to a labor union's political fund be donated voluntarily. It would also prohibit public employees from using taxpayer-funded payroll systems to donate to political funds. HB 179 does NOT restrict anyone's right to donate to any political fund. It simply requires that union members write and mail their own checks, just like the rest of us do. It also prohibits special treatment of union members based on their willingness or unwillingness to donate to political funds. HB 179 is about fairness and equal opportunity in our political process and deserves your support. Please vote YES on HB 179, and please contact me to tell me how you intend to vote. Thank you. Your Name Your Address House Education Committee Rep. Dayton, Chair Rep. Pace, Vice Chair Alexander, jalexand@le.state.ut.us, 801-375-1092 Bourdeaux, dbourdea@le.state.ut.us, 801-596-8784 Buffmire, jbuffmir@le.state.ut.us, 801-266-1862 Dayton, mdayton@le.state.ut.us, 801-221-0623 Ferrin, jferrin@le.state.ut.us, 801-224-6823 Gowans, jgowans@le.state.ut.us, 435-882-2120 Hogue, dhogue@le.state.ut.us, 801-254-1668 Johnson, bjohnson@le.state.ut.us, 435-529-3227 Newbold, mnewbold@le.state.ut.us, 801-254-0142 Pace, lpace@le.state.ut.us, 435-753-6154 Shurtliff, lshurtli@le.state.ut.us, 801-479-0289 Throckmorton, mthrockm@le.state.ut.us, 801-489-8342 Tyler, atyler@le.state.ut.us, 801-272-1218 HB 95, REGULATIONS OF PAWN SHOPS, WILL BE HEARD BY THE HOUSE BUSINESS, LABOR AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE THURSDAY AT 3 PM, ROOM 405. UTGOA POSITION: OPPOSE HB 95 creates a database, kept by local law enforcement agencies, of all pawnshop transactions. See the Jan. 23 alert http://www.utgoa.org/alerts/alerts01/012301.html for more details. It would require that your local law enforcement agency be notified if you pawn your own firearm, thus creating yet another registry of gun owners. A list of committee members is available at: http://www.le.state.ut.us/%7E2001/agenda/HSTBLE.htm Contact info is at: http://www.utgoa.org/resources/legcontact01.html SB 101, UNLAWFUL USE OF LASER POINTERS (D.E. ALLEN) WILL BE HEARD BY THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE ON THURSDAY, JAN. 25 AT 3 PM IN ROOM 416. UTGOA POSITION: OPPOSE SB 101 makes it a crime to shine a laser pointer at a moving vehicle or at a law enforcement officer. It is unnecessary since it is already illegal to intimidate a law enforcement officer. If shining laser pointers at people should be a crime, it should be a crime to shine one at anyone, not just law enforcement personnel. UTGOA suspects this may be the first step towards requiring permits for laser pointers. Committee members are Senators Gladwell (Chair), Buttars, Hillyard, Peterson, Suazo and Valentine. This bill has been held in committee several times, but Sen. Gladwell's intern says it will be debated tomorrow. Another bill to watch SB 87 - ANTIQUE FIREARMS AMENDMENTS - WADDOUPS UTGOA POSITION: SUPPORT SB 87 changes the definition of "firearm" so that it does not include antique, curio or relic firearms. This will exempt collectors of antique and curio firearms from the tens of thousands of gun control laws in existence. The rationale for this bill is apparently that collectors don't misuse their guns. But the overwhelming majority of Utah's gun owners don't misuse their guns either. UTGOA supports any bill that decreases the grip that gun control has over the people of Utah. But we wish Sen. Waddoups had chosen to use his talents to free all of Utah's gun owners from oppressive gun control. UTGOA is also hard at work to loosen the grip that gun control has over ALL peaceful gun owners. Thursday is the last day for filing bills, and we will provide you with a list of all firearms-related bills as soon as they're made public. We're keeping our promise to legislators not to tell anyone about their bills until they're made public, but we're quite excited about the possibilities. But no PRO-GUN bills will pass unless WE work hard to make sure legislators vote for them. So warm up your phone, computer, fax and pen, and stay tuned! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: UTGOA-unsubscribe@egroups.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:12:28 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Paycheck protection passes out of committee Congratulations!! As I'm sure most of you know, HB 179 passed out of committee today on a 7-6 vote and now goes to the full house to be voted on there. What you may not know is that there was a motion to place this bill at the top of the house calender. Placing it at the top of the calender guarantees that it will be voted upon. Unfortunately, that motion failed 6-7. Rep. Merlynn Newbold, HD 50 was the swing vote who voted to pass the bill out of committee but then voted against placing the bill at the top of the calender, As you've heard, this is an extremely important bill to our interests. Despite what you may have heard on the news tonight, this bill will not prevent teachers or anyone else from making voluntary contributions to the PACs or other political groups/activities of their choices. It simply prevents government employees from making such contributions via payroll deduction. They remain perfectly free to contribute the same way any of the rest of us contribute to our favorite causes: writing a check, giving a credit card number, giving cash, or even authorizing an automatic withdrawal from their bank accounts. This is important for two reasons. First, government payrolls are run using taxpayer money. In principle it is wrong to use taxpayer money, in any amount, to help collect PAC money that will then be used to lobby the government. Second, as a matter of practice, many teachers, in particular, are basically forced--via peer pressure and sometimes intimidation or even threats of bad peer reviews--to contribute their hard earned money to political causes they may not support. We believe that there will be a vote tomorrow to move this bill to the top of the House ca lander. Between now and then please make two phone calls and send two emails or faxes. First, please call and email you own legislator--especially if they are Republican or a self-proclaimed "moderate Democrat". Most of them can be reasonably called at home until about 10:45 pm as they get home late and are prone to watch the news. You can also call quite early in the morning as they start their days very early. Ask you legislator to support paycheck protection. Legislator contact info can be found at Second, (and especially if you live in HD 50) please call and email Merlynn Newbold and ask her to support paycheck protection. She wants to offer a couple of technical amendment to the bill. I'm not sure what effect these would have, but encourage her to support the bill even if her amendments don't pass. Like they often tell us with "less than perfect" bills: "Pass what you can this year, and then come back and review it during the interim session and make any needed fixes next year." Also, "Don't let perfection be the enemy of progress." Remember that she voted with us once she just needs to know that voters want this bill passed. Rep. Newbold can be reached at home at 801-254-0142. Her email is . In both cases please be firm, but polite. - ---------------- Charles Hardy ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:08:59 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: S.C. Att. Gen.: "Invade a home, invite a bullet!" ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Email Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control - --------- Forwarded message ---------- 'Invade a home and invite a bullet' South Carolina attorney general backs armed home defense By Jon Dougherty © 2001 WorldNetDaily.com In declaring an "open season" on burglars who break into homes, South Carolina Attorney General Charlie Condon has instructed all solicitors, sheriffs and police chiefs in the state to refrain from arresting "citizens acting to defend their homes" with a firearm or other weapon. In a statement released yesterday, Condon's office said the attorney general sent a memorandum to all state prosecutors and law enforcement officials warning them not to arrest or prosecute people who defend themselves with "deadly force" against a "home invader." The statement said the policy was necessary to protect citizens "in the wake of a rash of recent home invasions in North Charleston and elsewhere throughout the state." "As chief prosecutor of South Carolina, I am today declaring open season on home invaders," Condon said. "That season is year round. Citizens protecting their homes who use force -- even deadly force -- will be fully safeguarded under the law of this state and subject to no arrest, charge or prosecution. "In South Carolina, would-be intruders should now hear this: Invade a home and invite a bullet," said Cordon, a Republican. The state's chief law enforcement officer also said "a recent rash of home invasions by gang members and other criminals" led to his decision, noting that gang activity "is rising sharply in South Carolina." He cited a string of recent break-ins in North Charleston, as well as an incident in Columbia -- the state capital -- "where a victim managed to fight off home invaders with a sword," the statement said. Also, Condon said that in Richland County, sheriff's department officials believe four men have been responsible for over 90 home invasions in the past year alone. The policy serves as a warning to potential burglars, Condon said, about what "faces them" if they attempt to break into a home. And, he said, the policy would serve "to let homeowners know their rights." The attorney general said existing case law in South Carolina "gives ironclad protection to the citizen in safeguarding his or her home. "Inside the citizen's home, there are no legal technicalities for the criminal to rely on," he said. Courts have ruled that even deadly force may be used against a burglar "if such degree of force be reasonably necessary to accomplish the purpose of preventing a forcible entry against his will." Condon said the new policy would actually help the state's police officers. "Law enforcement officers cannot be everywhere at once," he said, noting that armed citizens protecting their homes would serve as a deterrent to crime, and lower crime rates and property loss. "Home invaders will think twice and even a third time" before breaking in, he said, "knowing [they] risk … their own death … on the other side of the innocent homeowner's door." "The home is the family's fortress of protection," he added. "When at home, people rightfully feel they are standing on sacred ground. The citizen's home is the line in the sand where criminals dare not cross." Condon's policy appears to reflect the sentiment of most police chiefs and sheriffs across the country. According to a 1999-2000 annual survey conducted by the National Association of Chiefs of Police, 93 percent of police chiefs and sheriffs who responded believe law-abiding citizens "should be able to purchase a firearm for self-defense or sport." Perhaps ironically, almost 95 percent of respondents did not believe the media is "fair and balanced" in reporting the news about police, firearms and other issues. While most gun-control groups believe fewer firearms in circulation -- as well as increased restrictions on private firearms ownership -- would do more to reduce gun deaths and the violent crime associated with them, survey participants overwhelmingly disagreed. Most police chiefs and sheriffs said better enforcement of existing laws -- not new gun laws -- would do more to reduce violence and gun deaths. Also, 88 percent said persons convicted of violating state or federal firearm possession laws should receive the maximum prison term for the offense. Jon E. Dougherty is a staff writer for WorldNetDaily. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:17:04 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: [UTGOA] URGENT ALERT! Voluntary Contributions The latest from UTGOA... ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Email Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control - --------- Forwarded message ---------- HB 179, VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTIONS ACT, was passed out of the House Education Committee today, and will soon be voted on by the entire House of Representatives. HB 179 requires labor organizations to establish a separate fund for political purposes, and prohibits payroll deductions for contributions to this political fund. It also requires labor organizations to clearly state that such funds are to be used for political purposes and that contributions are voluntary. Contrary to what some unions, including the Utah Education Association, are saying,HB 179 does NOT prevent anyone from contributing to whatever political funds s/he chooses. It simply says that contributions may not be made by payroll deduction. Contributions can still be made by cash, check, credit card, money order, or automatic bank deduction. This is simple fairness. If someone wants to contribute to Utah Gun Owners Alliance, he has to write a check and mail it to us. If someone wants to contribute to the UEA-PAC to support the anti-gun ballot initiative, he should also have to write a check and mail it. UTGOA is NOT anti-union. We are PRO-fairness. HB 179 passed by only ONE vote. We expect the vote in the House to be just as close. Voting will likely occur Friday and/or Monday. PLEASE CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVE AND ASK HIM/HER TO COMMIT TO SUPPORTING HB 179! A complete list of Representatives and contact info is available at http://www.utgoa.org/resources/legcontact01.html We suggest that you call your Representative at the Capitol at 801-538-1029 as early as possible on Friday. You will most likely have to leave a message, which can be as simple as "Please vote YES on HB 179, Voluntary Contributions". Then follow up with a phone call to his/her home over the weekend. The following Representatives voted FOR HB 179 in committee. Please thank them for their support and encourage them to take all appropriate measures to make sure the bill passes. You can leave a message at 801-538-1029. Alexander, jalexand@le.state.ut.us, 801-375-1092 Dayton, mdayton@le.state.ut.us, 801-221-0623 Ferrin, jferrin@le.state.ut.us, 801-224-6823 Johnson, bjohnson@le.state.ut.us, 435-529-3227 Newbold, mnewbold@le.state.ut.us, 801-254-0142 Pace, lpace@le.state.ut.us, 435-753-6154 Throckmorton, mthrockm@le.state.ut.us, 801-489-8342 Please also thank Rep. Chad Bennion, the bill sponsor. He is taking a lot of heat over this bill and needs to know that we appreciate his efforts. Chad Bennion, cbennion@le.state.ut.us, 801-281-1607 (home), 801-538-1029 (Capitol) The following Representatives voted AGAINST HB 179. If your Representative is on this list, please make sure you let him (her) know what you think, and encourage him to reconsider his vote. You can leave a message at 801-538-1029. Bourdeaux, dbourdea@le.state.ut.us, 801-596-8784 Buffmire, jbuffmir@le.state.ut.us, 801-266-1862 Gowans, jgowans@le.state.ut.us, 435-882-2120 Hogue, dhogue@le.state.ut.us, 801-254-1668 Shurtliff, lshurtli@le.state.ut.us, 801-479-0289 Tyler, atyler@le.state.ut.us, 801-272-1218 Please remember to be POLITE in your conversations with legislators! ALWAYS ask for a commitment. Do not accept responses like "You can trust me to do what's right". If the legislator indicates that he will vote the way you would like him to vote, thank him profusely and remind him (gently) that you will be tracking his votes. If he disagrees with you, stay calm, but don't back down. It is perfectly okay to let a legislator know that his vote will have consequences, but don't make threats that you can't or won't fulfill. For example, you can certainly say, "I will not support you, or any legislator, who votes to take away my rights". (Assuming this is true, of course!) You should not say, "I will make sure you never hold office anywhere, ever again". (If you do have the power to make this happen legally, UTGOA would like to know about it!) If the legislator says he doesn't know how he will vote, or that he hasn't read the bill, repeat your reasons why he should vote for/against that bill. Ask him what additional information he needs to decide, and offer your assistance. You can also suggest that he contact UTGOA. (801-566-1625) Then set an appointment to follow up. Always remind your legislators that you will be tracking their votes, and that you will decide whether or not to support them in the future based on how they vote. SB 101 - Laser Pointers was substituted and passed by the Senate Judiciary committee. HB 95 - Pawnshop Regulations was held by the House Business, Labor, and Economic Development Committee. HB 222 - Tax credit for safes is awaiting a vote on the House floor. None of these is a priority bill, but please let your OWN legislators know how you would like them to vote. See UTGOA's previous alerts for details. Alerts are at http://www.utgoa.org/cgi-bin/alerts. NEW ON THE UTGOA WEB SITE: How a bill becomes a law http://www.utgoa.org/resources/HowABill.html NEW BILLS The complete list of filed bills is not yet available. UTGOA will give you a full update this weekend. Two new bills to watch: HB 264 Gun Safety Law Amendments (Mike Thompson) - This bill provides for mandatory firearms safety education in government schools. It also provides for optional hands-on firearms safety training for high school seniors with parental consent. http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2001/htmdoc/hbillhtm/HB0264.htm HB 266 Restoration of Right to Bear Arms (Matt Throckmorton) - This bill instructs the Department of Public Safety to develop procedures for restoration of firearms rights for persons who are no longer a threat to public safety. http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2001/htmdoc/hbillhtm/HB0266.htm Copyright 2001, Utah Gun Owners Alliance and Sarah Thompson PO Box 1185 Sandy, UT 84091 801-566-1625 http://www.utgoa.org Director@utgoa.org PLEASE SUPPORT UTAH GUN OWNERS ALLIANCE! JOIN US TODAY! Did someone forward this to you? Please SUBSCRIBE NOW! That way you'll receive our FREE alerts as soon as they're released. During the legislative session, we send urgent, time limited alerts. Don't risk missing important information because someone else neglected to forward important information. Our alerts are low volume and average less than one alert per day. To subscribe to the UTGOA list, send a blank email to utgoa-subscribe@egroups.com or use the form on our web site, http://www.utgoa.org. For more information, see http://www.egroups.com/group/UTGOA. UTGOA is written and distributed by, Utah Gun Owners Alliance, www.utgoa.org, and Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made, UTGOA is clearly credited, and this message is left intact. Archives of the UTGOA alerts can be found at: http://www.utgoa.org/cgi-bin/alerts To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: UTGOA-unsubscribe@egroups.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:19:18 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Fw:AOL Lawsuit takes new turn A little more info in the AOL lawsuit. Looks like AOL is getting a little desperate. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Email Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control - --------- Forwarded message ---------- If you can't beat them on legal grounds, resort to plan B: Malign them! Friday, January 26, 2001 Standard Examiner AOL fires back in gun lawsuit OGDEN -- America Online defended its strict no-weapons-at-work policy in a response to a lawsuit filed by employees fired for having guns on company property. The three former employees were fired for transferring hunting rifles between cars in the company parking lot. Tuesday, AOL attorney Greg Stevens filed a response to the lawsuit in 2nd District Court. The 15-page answer denies much of the suit filed by Luke Hansen, Paul Carlson and Jason Melling. The company charges "one or more of the plaintiffs were in violation of Utah law concerning concealed weapons." Namely Melling, who didn't have a concealed weapons permit for the firearms he toted. Stevens said AOL officials may have been worried about one or all of the former employees' dispositions. "At least one (of the three) violated AOL's policies by expressing a tendency towards violence," the answer states. E ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 12:43:41 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: Another legislator needs contacting on Paycheck protection The following is forwarded from someone in Rep. Joe Murray's District, House District 8. Please take a few moments to contact the Representative and let him know you view HB 179, Paycheck Protection as a pro-gun bill that he should support. If you live in his district, are a delegate or other party activist, please let him know that. If you have family or friends in his district, pleae ask them to contact him as well, since that is really the most effective. Thanks. - ---------------- Charles Hardy - --------- Forwarded message ---------- > My Representative, Joe Murray, House District 8, could possibly become motivated to support the bill. So far he is mostly on the other side. His phone is (801) 393-7062. He needs to understand this is pro-gun legislation. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:40:11 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: Warriors and Weapons A great read... - ---------------- Charles Hardy - --------- Forwarded message ---------- Warriors and Weapons by David A. Yeagley FrontPageMagazine.com | January 26, 2001 URL: http://www.frontpagemag.com/columnists/yeagley/2001/dy01-26-01p.htm A YEAR AGO, I had a religious experience. No, I didn't speak in tongues. I didn't see an apparition of Mary. And even though I'm Comanche Indian, I didn't commune with my ancestors or hear the eagles talk. All I did was watch a TV infomercial produced by the National Rifle Association (NRA). There I was, sitting in my easy chair, eating chicken soup and watching television. Suddenly, I saw an immense pile of guns, thousands of them, being bulldozed into a metal crusher. The narrator explained. These weapons had been confiscated from law-abiding citizens, and were being destroyed. The government had first required the people to register their firearms, and promised that no confiscation would ever occur. Then the government broke its promise. According to the voice-over, this happened in Australia, England, and Canada. The United States was next in line. On the screen appeared distraught gun owners, one after another. "They said they would never do this, but they did it! Don't let this happen to you!" they warned Americans. We Comanches don’t usually admit to being scared. But I was terrified.I had a sense that I was losing America (and, as an Indian, it wouldn’t be the first time). I guess I’d always known, in the back of my mind, that there were people out there trying to take our guns. But those faces on TV drove the point home like nothing else had. They were the faces of a people betrayed. Long ago, the government took away the Indian's weapons and put him on reservations. That is history. Indians know all about broken promises. But why would the White Man betray himself? Why would the U.S. government take the weapons away from its own good citizens? They say they’re trying to stop crime. But the more gun laws they pass, the more crime we get. A hundred years ago, we didn’t have gun laws and we didn’t have much crime either. In his book, More Guns, Less Crime, Yale Law School economist John Lott shows that, across the United States, over an 18-year period, "states experiencing the greatest reductions in crime are also the ones with the fastest growing percentages of gun ownership." So why does the government keep pushing gun control? The warrior in me knows. He who takes my bow is not my friend. He who takes away my ability to defend myself is my enemy. If the government takes our guns, it’s not because they are trying to help us. It’s because they are trying to control us. Since my "religious experience" of watching that documentary, I’ve found myself wondering why Indians have not played a bigger role in the gun rights debate. Weapons are an integral part of our culture. In Indian country, it’s taken for granted that everyone shoots and hunts. Perhaps the use of arms is so fundamental to us that we don’t even think of it as a right that can be lost. Recently, I visited Indian friends of the Salish-Kootenay Reservation in Montana. It was a few days before a funeral. Extra food was needed for the mourners. "I've got to go get a deer," my friend Terry said, as simply as most Americans would say "I've got to go to the store." Among Indians, the weapon is a symbol of honor. In Comanche tradition, the young man grew up with the bow. Its mastery was a test of manhood. The relationship of man and weapon was intimate and lifelong. Every Comanche learned to fight and hunt. If you weren’t waging war, you were preparing for war. It was the duty of every member of the tribe to be ready, just in case. In modern America, women seem to have turned against their own men over the gun issue, judging by the polls and the Million Mom March. Indian women have a different mindset. It was the women who taught Comanche boys how to use their weapons. Long before anyone ever heard of Xena the Warrior Princess, a woman called the "adiva," or governess ran the Comanche training camps. Americans nowadays seem to be forgetting what it means to be a warrior. They don’t value preparedness. They think the government will always be there to defend them from enemies and criminals. But that’s not the Indian way. That’s not the way of a man. I’m glad the NRA is out there spreading this message. It has earned this Indian’s blessing for helping to keep the warrior spirit alive. To show support for adding Dr. Yeagleys patriotism course to the Oklahoma public school curriculum, contact: Governor Frank Keating Office of the Governor State Capitol Building Oklahoma City, OK 73105 governor@gov.state.ok.us E-mail Dr. David A. Yeagley: badeagle2000@yahoo.com Dr. David A. Yeagley teaches humanities and psychology at Oklahoma State University, Oklahoma City. His opinions are independent. He holds degrees from Yale, Emory, Oberlin, University of Arizona and University of Hartford He is a member of the Comanche Tribe, Lawton, OK. E-mail him at badeagle2000@yahoo.com. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:51:02 -0700 From: "Scott Bergeson" Subject: PRO GUN LEGISLATION BEFORE CONGRESS Forwarded with the proviso I haven't carefully examined these bills. Scott - ----- PRO GUN LEGISLATION BEFORE CONGRESS KeepAndBearArms.com Alert http://www.keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=1155 We support these two bills before Congress, and we urge you to do the same: * Firearms Heritage Protection Act of 2001 * Citizens' Self-Defense Act of 2001 FIND YOUR STATE CONTACTS: http://www.piperinfo.com/state/index.cfm AUTO-EMAIL: http://keepandbeararms.com/takeaction/automailers NEWS & MEDIA OUTLETS: http://www.kidon.com/media-link/usa.shtml CONTACT YOUR GOVERNOR: http://congress.nw.dc.us/nyt/governor.html CONTACT YOUR MAYOR: http://www.usmayors.org/uscm/meet_mayors CONTACT YOUR ATTORNEY GENERAL: http://www.naag.org/about/ag.html FAX YOUR FEDERAL CONTACTS: http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm CAPITOL SWITCHBOARD TOLL-FREE HOTLINES: 800.241.7109, 800.335.4949, 800.456.1414, 800.505.0145 800.522.6721, 800.648.3516, 800.663.9566, 800.722.7494 800.972.3524, 877.762.8762, 877.778.9001, 888.449.3511 WHITEHOUSE FAX: 202-456-2461 President George W. Bush: mailto:president@whitehouse.gov Vice President Dick Cheney: mailto:vice.president@whitehouse.gov - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:29:28 -0700 (MST) From: DarvellHunt@webtv.net (Darvell Hunt) Subject: HB345: elimination of Utah concealed permits Anybody hear about house bill 345? It hasn't been introduced by it's sponsor Mike Thompson yet, but it sounds like a GREAT BILL. This bill would essentially eliminate concealed weapons permits in Utah. But WAIT A MINUTE! I said this was good, didn't I? Representative Mike Thompson, who says he doesn't own guns but understands the second amendment, wants to make carrying of concealed weapon LEGAL for law abiding Utah residents. That means that a permit would NOT BE REQUIRED. Did you hear that? Could Utah be the second state in the Union, along with Vermont, that doesn't require a permit to carry? Wow, I don't think we expected that! We should get behind this bill! Frankly, I'd be surprised if it passed, but it can if it gets enough support! I also heard some interesting news about a law requiring gun saftey classes in high school. Not only are we not having many anti-gun bills this year, but we've got some great pro-gun ones! I guess we Utahns voted well! ;) Darvell Hunt Pleasant Grove, UT - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:52:35 -0700 From: charles hardy Subject: Fw:Siddoway's Position on HB179 The following is Rep. Siddoway's response to one of his constituents concerning HB 179, paycheck protection. If you happen to live in his district (or even if you don't) you may want to contact him on his position. You may also want to make sure that he is as vigilant in protecting clearly stated 2nd amnd rights as he is in protecting his misunderstanding of 1st and 14th amd rights. Rep. Siddoway's contact is: Mailing Address: 243 East 3100 South Bountiful, Utah 84010 Phone: (home) 801-292-4185 (office) 801-538-7736 (fax) 801-294-4135 (capital--ask to have a message delivered) 801-538-1029 E-mail Address: rsiddoway@earthlink.com or rsiddowa@le.state.ut.us ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Email Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control - --------- Forwarded message ---------- - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Richard Siddoway" Subject: Re: Position on HB179 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:13:41 -0700 [Constituent], thank you for your thoughtful information on HB 179. However, I have real concerns that this is a violation of both the 1st and 14th amendments to the constitution. I took an oath the first day of this session to uphold both the U.S. and Utah constitutions, and, consequently, will probably vote against this bill on those constitutional concerns. Thanks, Dick ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #202 ***********************************