From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #246 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Wednesday, September 17 2003 Volume 02 : Number 246 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:06:58 GMT From: Charles Hardy Subject: Today's Anti-Gun Editorial from the Trib For those who care to respond with a LTE, here is the latest anti-gun drivel from the SLTrib... ================== Charles Hardy Gunfight at the U. The University of Utah has won the first legal skirmish with the Legislature over guns on campus, but some lawmakers want to continue the war. That is unfortunate, because the university's policy prohibiting students, faculty and staff from packing heat on campus promotes a safe place to air all ideas and opinions, no matter how controversial. That is the heart of academic freedom.     However, Sen. Mike Waddoups, R-Taylorsville, disagrees. He believes that the Legislature has passed firearms laws that explicitly allow university students, faculty and staff who hold permits to carry concealed weapons on state college campuses. He and Attorney General Mark Shurtleff interpret the U.'s firearms policy as defiance of state law.     Third District Judge Robert Hilder sided with the university last week, ruling from the bench that the Legislature's firearms laws were not meant to interfere with the U.'s internal policies on firearms. However, the judge seemed to hold the door open for the Legislature to change that.     Waddoups immediately made a dash for that door, saying that he would propose legislation to clarify that the Legislature, not the university, controls firearms law and policy on campus. He also said that the state would appeal Judge Hilder's ruling to the Utah Supreme Court.     The upshot is that this gun battle is far from over.     It should be, though, because the university's policy encourages people to settle their differences with arguments rather than gunfire. That is the message behind the rule that bans people associated with the university from bringing guns to campus, even if they have a legal right to do it.     Judging by experience, that policy has been successful. The U. has prohibited students from bringing weapons to campus since at least 1977, and there are no records of serious crimes involving guns since that time.     The U. extended the policy to faculty and staff in the 1990s.     Gun-rights advocates in the Legislature insist that this kind of rule only protects the criminals who happily violate it because it leaves the rest of the community on campus unarmed and unprotected, except for campus police. But rather than inviting more weapons onto campus, the U.'s long record with the current policy argues for leaving it alone.     This battle has more to do with Republicans scoring points in the political fight over gun rights than it does with providing a safer learning environment at the University of Utah. An arms race at the U. is a solution in search of a problem, and frankly, the Legislature should drop it. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:34:12 GMT From: Charles Hardy Subject: Animal abuse a felony? This is not strictly gun related, but anytime there is a push to take what is currently a misdemeanor and make it a felony gun owners should at least study the issue and make sure it is not ripe for abuse. A felony conviction, no matter how unjustified, effectively eliminates RKBA for life. Charles Coalition aims to make animal abuse a felony By Laura Hancock Deseret Morning News A coalition of animal shelter operators hopes the case of a recent kitten death will boost its efforts to make animal abuse a felony in Utah. On Aug. 28, a jury found Steven Lee Hovey, 34, guilty of aggravated cruelty to an animal, a class A misdemeanor, and reckless child abuse, a class B misdemeanor, for killing a 10-year-old girl's kitten. Hovey is accused of twisting the head of a kitten named Tyson on June 17, 2002, because he was upset with the child's mother for spurning his sexual advances. The kitten scratched Hovey and ran to another room. Hovey followed the kitten, picked it up and slammed it multiple times against the floor and a wall. Salt Lake County prosecutors said the man left the house, with the kitten's blood and feces on the wall, carrying the quivering kitten by the tail. The jury found Hovey's girlfriend, Susan Lee Parry, not guilty of obstructing justice charges. She was cleared of accusations of disposing the kitten's body. Hovey will be sentenced in December. Shelter operators throughout Utah applaud the jury's decision to find Hovey guilty. "In the five years or more that I've been here, that stands out as the most painful case I've been aware of," Salt Lake County Animal Services spokeswoman Temma Martin said. But the law is too lenient, said Gene Baierschmidt, executive director of the Humane Society of Utah. Baierschmidt is organizing a petition drive to put the animal abuse issue on the November 2004 ballot. He wants voters to choose whether animal abuse convictions should be a third-degree felony, with penalties of up to five years in prison and a $5,000 fine. The class A misdemeanor carries up to a year in prison and a $2,500 fine. Animal abuse penalties with more teeth would provide prosecutors an incentive to try such cases, Baierschmidt said. Baierschmidt also believes felony penalties could deter would-be animal abusers. Studies have shown people who abuse animals are likely to be violent toward other people, Baierschmidt said. "We think that's a real problem that needs to be addressed," he said. "These people who abuse animals need to be punished. More importantly, they need to get into treatment." The petition needs 76,000 signatures by May 2004 to become an initiative on the November 2004 ballot. Thus far, there are 20,000 signatures, Baierschmidt said. Forty-one other states have a felony provision for cruelty to animals. "Even, surprisingly, Wyoming," Baierschmidt said. "Last year they passed it in the (state) Legislature." The coalition that's pushing the petition includes Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Kanab, Wasatch Humane in Bountiful and No More Homeless Pets in Utah. The coalition chose not to push the issue through the Utah Legislature because last year it could not get a Republican to sponsor its bill. And Baierschmidt believes the bill would only have a chance of passing if it was backed by a Republican. "I don't think a lot of (legislators) like animals," said Baierschmidt. "They view this as sort of an animal rights thing." Salt Lake mayoral candidate Frank Pignanelli, who sponsored the last round of animal abuse penalty increases in 1996 when he was the House minority leader, acknowledged it was difficult to dispel legislators' suspicions the bill would target agriculture or the rodeo, and that its proponents are members of extremist animal rights groups. During a special session in 1996, the Utah Legislature enhanced animal abuse penalties to a class A misdemeanor from a class C misdemeanor. When he was House minority leader, Salt Lake mayoral candidate Frank Pignanelli wanted to make some animal abuse crimes a felony but could only get the penalties raised if he capped them at a class A misdemeanor, he said. "It can be a challenge," he said. "Believe me, initiatives are not easy, either." E-mail: lhancock@desnews.com ================== Charles Hardy ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 04:45:30 GMT From: Charles Hardy Subject: Darren Jensen has a CCW Just caught the tail end of TV News broadcast (sorry, I missed the channel, my wife was driving) in which the reporter stated that during a phone interview, Darren Jensen had told him there were Idaho police officers outside his in-laws home (where he is staying) and he felt like he would be arrested if he did not agree to the State's terms in the deal for his son. Unfortunately, he said (according to the reporter) that the police were a little nervous because he has a concealed carry permit and they weren't sure what it would take to seize his son. He then went on to say he would not have used is gun as he only uses it for protection. Regardless of the accuracy, IMO, it was terribly foolish to even bring up guns, CCW permits, etc in this context. Now, rather than being every guy next door, he is Mr. Gun nut. Anyone who owns guns is dangerous and who knows what else he might do. ;( Besides, it is naive at best to think that a CCW permit is going to make trained peace officers any more nervous about seizing a child from an Idaho home/family than they normally would be. Well over 50% of all homes in Idaho have firearms in them and I'd expect that should officers have to execute a search and seizure for a child, especially in this kind of case where they are likely to be expected, they are going to assume that some kind of armed or violent resistance is possible and prepare accordingly. Now, lest anyone get the wrong idea, from what info I've seen, I think this whole case is a crock and should never have gotten this far in the first place. The diagnosis is in doubt, there is no detectable cancer. Even if the diagnosis were not in doubt, there are plenty of people who choose to not subject themselves to chemo. And the whole felony kidnapping charges and interfering with seeking treatment in Texas just shows that Utah officials care far more about exerting authority than about Parker getting treatment. In short, it looks to me like the State has WAAY overstepped any reasonable role in protecting children in this case. However, having said that, comments about a ccw strike me as inprudent at best. I hope it doesn't cause the family any additional grief. OTOH, one wonders whether DCFS was aware of the permit when they started their proceedings and if that knowledge colored their view of the situation. They have been very hostile to CCW holders in the past as far as not accepting them to be foster parents. Charles ================== Charles Hardy ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 03:13:50 GMT From: Charles Hardy Subject: FW: U to engage in more political activism Any guesses what percentage of students will be engaged in campaigns for anti-gun democrats vs what precentage will be engaged in pro-gun/pro-freedom efforts? Our tax dollars at work [against us yet again]. Oh well, as its own gun free, affirmative action zone, this was to be expected I'd guess. ================== Charles Hardy - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- - ---------- Friends- Today's Deseret News column by Ted Wilson and Lavarr Webb has an interesting insight from WIlson concerning the future direction of the U's "Hinckley Institute of Politics": http://deseretnews.com/dn/view2/1,4382,510052158,00.html QUOTE As I [Ted Wilson] "repot" [leaving the Institute for other employment or surroundings] so does the institute. Led by the vision of President Bernie Machen and Dean Steve Ott, the institute, with new interim director Ron Hrebenar, has new purpose. The goal is to blend the institute and the Department of Political Science into exciting graduate work in practical politics and international programs. Master's and doctorate degrees could be offered for campaigning, polling, lobbying and other exciting areas of applied politics. It might be the most exciting college program west of the Mississippi in this emerging academic specialty. END QUOTE So, our tax dollars will be supporting training and practice by political operatives, "led by the vision" of Bermie Machen rewarded by advanced degrees in the slimy skills of politics. Does anyone think there will be an effort to ensure "diversity" in this or will it all be liberal causes and candidates pushing the leftist agenda? The U wants its "academic freedom" as long as it can meddle elsewhere. John Spangler ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:28:48 GMT From: Charles Hardy Subject: HR1078 FW: URGENT ALERT: The New Civics in Congress A more general look at HR1078. See my other message for RKBA specific concerns... ================== Charles Hardy - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- EdAction [Maple River Education Coalition PAC] 1402 Concordia Avenue St. Paul, MN 55144 651-646-0646 http://www.edaction.org URGENT ALERT: The New Civics in Congress September 10, 2003 - --------------------------------------------------------------- "The American History and Civics Education Act of 2003"-- H.R. 1078 WE NEED YOUR IMMEDIATE ACTION! H.R.1078 would set up 12 federal academies to teach the "new" civics and history to top-performing students around the country. It would set up 12 more federal academies to teach teachers what to teach. Then it would set up "best practices" for teaching it everywhere. (See "Beware the New Civics," http://edaction.org/) On August 25th, we halted our National Call-in To Congress Day, because the "New Civics" bill, H.R.1078 was "as dead as any bill gets," according to Congressional insiders. H.R. 1078 WOULD NOT be coming up for action. (See http://edaction.org/) Now we are told, however, that the White House has become involved. We have been informed that THE WHITE HOUSE WANTS H.R.1078 PASSED, AND SO THE LEADERSHIP WILL NOT OPPOSE IT ANYMORE! In a matter of days, H.R.1078 has been transformed from a bill that was unable to be revived to a bill that cannot be stopped! Some members of Congress are trying to "clean up" the language, since the leadership will likely add it to the "consent calendar" and pass it by a UNANIMOUS VOICE VOTE this week or early next. An example of "cleaning it up" involves changing some of the language. For example, the bill lists "key ideas" that shaped the "heritage of the United States" -- ideas that must be taught, that will cement the federal curriculum into federal law. One of these is the "separation of church and state." "Maybe" that misrepresented concept that the courts have used unconstitutionally to censor the public expression and representation of our religious heritage, one not written into any founding document, will be removed. Will national sovereignty be added to the list of "key ideas" that must be taught? Or self-evident truths? Or unalienable rights? That is, will the genuine fundamental principles of freedom be included in what must be taught in American government classes? Probably not, we're told, no, because Senator Ted Kennedy is negotiating the final language, along with Senator Lamar Alexander, and, those ideas are unlikely to get past him. But it does list "individualism" as a key idea. Well, unfortunately, "individualism" has not legal meaning. Will negotiators also remove "belief in progress," from the existing list of key ideas that must be taught, a concept of "evolving" principles that replaces the recognition of God-given unalienable rights and self-evident truths? It's not likely to be removed. If you want to know what the passage of this legislation means to our country and to our heritage, look at "We the People," the federally sanctioned and funded textbook on American Government -- the ONLY textbook directly sanctioned and funded by federal law. (Available through the Center for Civic Education, http://www.civiced.org) Notice that National Sovereignty is never mentioned once in the entire textbook on American government. Then go to Lesson 37 (high school level). Notice that instead of National Sovereignty, the textbook promotes the "global village" and promotes world citizenship. Notice that the lesson ends with this question: "Do you think that world citizenship is possible in your lifetime?" Go to the last lesson in the textbook, Lesson 40, titled, "What is meant by returning to fundamental principles?" " The Founders, themselves, were vigorous critics of the wisdom they inherited and the principles in which they believed. They were articulate, opinionated individuals who loved to examine ideas, to analyze, argue and debate them. They expected no less of future generations. They would expect no less of you." [p. 214] In other words, there ARE no fundamental principles. This radical teaching of civics and government is undermining our National Sovereignty, our Constitution and our Bill of Rights. Now go to "What is meant by teaching the Bill of Rights?" "As fundamental and lasting as its guarantees have been [past tense], the U.S. Bill of Rights is a document of the eighteenth century, reflecting the issues and concerns of the age in which it was written.. . . " [p. 207] In other words, the Bill of Rights may have been useful for people 200 years ago, but it is not necessarily useful for us today. It is impossible to imagine that the "Presidential Academies" will not teach the federal curriculum that is sanctioned and funded by federal law. THIS IS WHAT H.R.1078 WILL TEACH! If the "clean-up" of the language doesn't AT LEAST include incorporating the principles of national sovereignty, unalienable rights and self-evident truth, then the "clean-up" is not worth the paper it's written on. H.R.1078 is an "inside job" to undermine the authority of our government to govern, and the God-given rights articulated in both the Declaration of Independence and in the Bill of Rights, such as the 2nd amendment right to bear arms, the 10th amendment's reserved and delegated powers, and the unalienable right to life and property. It is that serious. ACTION: We face the daunting task of turning around White House support for this slick and misleading proposal, because the White House staff wants the President to have a bill to sign by September 17th, Constitution Day. Ironically, Senator Ted Kennedy is sitting in judgment over which rights for American citizens will be recognized by our government. PLEASE CALL: Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert 202 - 225-2976 dhastert@mail.house.gov House Majority Leader Tom DeLay 202 - 225-5951 Majority Whip Roy Blunt 202 - 225-0197 r.blount@mail.house.gov Chairman of the House Committee on Education and the Workforce Congressman John Boehner 202 - 225-6205 URGE THEM TO SEND A DELEGATION TO THE WHITE HOUSE. This bill is part of Ted Kennedy's agenda for America. It is not the defense of our founding principles of freedom. CALL YOUR OWN MEMBER OF CONGRESS. Make these points: 1. H.R.1078 is anti-American. It deliberately excludes the most essential principles of our free system of freedom that sets America apart as a beacon to the world. 2. Senator Ted Kennedy's left wing agenda should not be running the show. Republicans are in the majority, and should be keeping Kennedy OUT of power, not empowering him. 3. H.R.1078 is an insult to the men and women in the American military and their families who are sacrificing their very lives today in Afghanistan and Iraq for our freedom . They are dying and suffering to protect the freedom Congress is about to so willingly toss aside. 4. Senators didn't hear ONE word of testimony opposing this bill before passing it. If H.R.1078 goes ont the consent calendar in the House, House members won't hear ONE word of testimony at all. 5. Passing this attack on our Constitutional principles is exactly the wrong way to honor the Constitution. REJECT H.R. 1078! The White House Phone Numbers COMMENTS: 202-456-1111 SWITCHBOARD: 202-456-1414 FAX: 202-456-2461 The White House E-Mail Addresses President George W. Bush: president@whitehouse.gov Vice President Richard Cheney: vice.president@whitehouse.gov Secretary of Education Rod Paige Phone: (202) 401-3000 E-mail: Rod.Paige@ed.gov Members of Congress by state: http://clerk.house.gov/members/index.php Minnesota Members of Congress: http://edaction.org/Legislators/USCongress.htm ############################################################# ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:30:17 GMT From: Charles Hardy Subject: HR1078 RKBA specific FW: Gun Control Education To Be Voted On This Wee k RKBA specific concerns of HR 1078... ================== Charles Hardy - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Act Today! Tempus fugit. - ---------- Gun Control Education To Be Voted On This Week Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151 Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408 http://www.gunowners.org Tuesday, September 9, 2003 Last month, Gun Owners of America alerted you to legislation that would continue the dangerous trend towards erasing our foundational principles from America's schools -- principles such as the right to keep and bear arms. It now appears that the bill may be "fast tracked" to the House floor for a vote. That legislation is H.R. 1078, a bill which gives unelected bureaucrats the power to set up Presidential Academies to train educators -- educators who will end up teaching revisionist history and civics. Already, federally subsidized curricula in the schools have been chipping away at national sovereignty and the notion of God-given rights for several years. For example, We the People -- a federally subsidized textbook -- is so welded to a revisionist view, the Second Amendment isn't even mentioned in the section discussing which of the Bill of Rights are relevant today! And while the book does discuss the Second Amendment in a historical context, it does so in a way that causes the student to start questioning the wisdom of the amendment, asking the student whether the right to keep and bear arms is still as "important today" as it was in the eighteenth century and to decide what "limitations" should be placed on the right. In other words, our gun rights evolve with the times. We the People also pushes global citizenship over national citizenship, encouraging students to think in terms of global (i.e., UN) solutions. This gets kids used to the notion that unelected UN bureaucrats can override and change our ways of doing things in this country, in order to bring our nation into greater "harmony" with the rest of the world. If that happens, you can kiss your gun rights goodbye. This legislation could be voted on as early as Wednesday (9/9/03) or Thursday (9/10/03). Please contact your Representative immediately and ask him or her to oppose both H.R. 1078 and S. 504. ACTION: Time is of the essence. Please urge your Representative to oppose H.R. 1078 and S. 504, bills which will contribute to dumbing down the next generation of Americans -- at least as far as our constitutional rights are concerned. NOTE: Currently, the GOA website is experiencing technical difficulties. Therefore, please go to the House of Representatives website at http://www.house.gov/writerep as an alternate way to contact your Congressman via e-mail. A sample letter, which you can copy and paste into the House website, is appended below for your convenience. - ------------------------------------- Dear Representative, Gun Owners of America has informed me that Senate leaders would like the House to bring up S. 504 in an expedited manner. If S. 504 (or its House counterpart, H.R. 1078) is enacted, educators will be encouraged to teach that I do not have an individual right to keep and bear arms. It will establish Presidential Academies on teaching civics and history which will use anti-gun texts like We the People -- the taxpayer-subsidized textbook that conforms to the federal guidelines on teaching civics and history. This book does not teach that Americans have a Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms that applies TODAY. Instead, the book encourages students to start questioning the wisdom of the Second Amendment, asking the student whether the right to keep and bear arms is still as "important today" as it was in the eighteenth century and to decide what "limitations" should be placed on the right. We the People also encourages students to begin thinking of themselves as global citizens, as opposed to citizens of this country. This gets kids used to the notion that unelected UN bureaucrats can override and change our ways of doing things in this country, in order to bring our nation into greater "harmony" with the rest of the world. Again, this poses a great danger to my Second Amendment rights, and I would hope that you will never vote for a bill that will allow unelected bureaucrats to further inculcate teachers in this radical, revisionist ideology. We already have too much Federal involvement in education, and the results have not been good. As control over education becomes more and more federalized, it seems that the ideas which children are learning become more and more radical. Please vote against S. 504 and H.R. 1078, two bills which are decidedly anti-gun. Sincerely ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:03:14 GMT From: Charles Hardy Subject: Jensen case supports keeping guns out of schools? It does according to Marla Kennedy. It is shameles that she would use the Jensen case for this kind of unrelated political blather. Of coure, given this kind of "logic," it is no wonder she thinks the world will be safer if some of the most trustworthy and law abiding members of our society (And if teachers don't fit that bill, why should we be forced to entrust our children to their care for 8 hours a day?) are rendered defenseless. I wonder if she thinks parents have as much "right" to know the marital status, sexual preferences/orientation, political views, medical history, and religous views/affifilation of teachers as they do to know whether those teachers have a person self defense weapon. Rebuttal letters can and should be sent to letters@desnews.com. Charles Parental rights important I have read with interest recent editorials on guns in schools side-by-side with angry statements from parents about medical treatment decisions for Parker Jensen. Many parents may not know the connection between the two issues. Utah law gives unique protection to concealed weapon permit holders and keeps their names secret from the public. As a parent, you have no right to know if a teacher, coach, employee or volunteer in your child's school is carrying a gun. Shouldn't all parents have the same right to protect their children and make profound parental decisions that the Jensens seek? Being able to know if a gun is in your child's classroom seems like a very important parental right. Marla Kennedy Executive director Gun Violence Prevention Center of Utah ================== Charles Hardy ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:17:08 GMT From: Charles Hardy Subject: Gun could have been charged had he told boys about gun This is a little scary. Certainly we all support storing a firearm in a safe manner given one's situation. And prudence would dictate that one not advertise the location of firearms. But could a gun owner really be charged with a crime, after being the victim of an unlawful entry into his property and illegal handling of his personal property simply for having mentioned the gun to the boys? What about a scoutmaster or other youth advisor who keeps a gun somewhere and over the course of time the kids learn it is there? Does that set him up for criminal charges if one of the kids ever does anyting stupid/criminal and someone gets hurt with that gun? I have a small propane torch in my garage that I use for soldering. If some kid breaks into my garage (or even walks in through an open door), steals that torch, and starts a fire that kills someone, am I going to be liable for not having that torch under lock and key or for not having kept it a secret from the entire neighborhood? For that matter, EVERYONE knows I keep a car in my garage. What happens if someone steals my car and ends up hurting or killing some kid? Am I going to be liable? What if I am cleaning it and stupidly leave the keys in it while I go inside to answer the phone and it is stolen? Liable? Charles Gun owner cleared in shooting of boy The Salt Lake District Attorney's Office has cleared a gun owner of any wrongdoing in Monday's shooting of a 12-year-old boy in South Jordan. However, prosecutors Wednesday also announced they continue to investigate whether criminal charges are justified against a 14-year-old boy who allegedly fired the single shot that struck the unnamed boy in the head, district attorney spokesman Kent Morgan said. The boy, whose name has not been released by law enforcement officials, died from injuries. Monday afternoon, two boys were in the garage of a house near 9500 South and 1100 West when they came across the .40-caliber semiautomatic pistol, police said. Neither boy lived at the house, but both lived in the neighborhood, police said. The shooting apparently was accidental. "It appears the children learned of the location of the gun from a source other than the gun owner," said Morgan, who said the owner would have been charged with reckless endangerment if he had told children about the gun. The gun was in the owner's vehicle that was parked at the house. Morgan said that is legal according to Utah weapon's statute. ================== Charles Hardy ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:46:56 GMT From: Charles Hardy Subject: Another State adds CCW No details at this time: *************************************** Democrats Slam Army Major Over Guns Last week, Missouri's legislature overrode, by one vote, a veto by the state 's Democrat governor of a bill establishing the right to carry a concealed weapon. That one vote was cast by a state senator currently serving his country in the military. State Sen. Jon Dolan (R) - a major in the Army National Guard - is stationed in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where the United States has its hands full playing host to some of the worst terrorists formerly roaming the planet. Sen. Dolan was granted a six-day leave to return to Missouri to cast the deciding vote on the veto override. As you'd expect, the Democrats are having a cow, with state Sen. Lacy Clay (D) firing off letters to the Defense Department demanding an investigation of Sen. Dolan's leave. These people have no shame whatsoever. *************************************** ================== Charles Hardy ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:29:05 GMT From: Charles Hardy Subject: FW: Permit Holder nabs robber Let's hope the clerk doesn't lose his job over having a ccw at work. ================== Charles Hardy - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- At last! A positive mention for CCW. - ---------- Buried at the bottom of 9/12/03 Tribune's "for the record" section, but any permit holder misconduct would be front page news. http://www.sltrib.com/2003/sep/09122003/utah/91751.asp QUOTE Concealed-gun permit holder stops would-be robber A 27-year-old Orem man who entered a Provo Greyhound bus station Thursday and demanded money got quite a surprise. After handing the clerk a note demanding money, the clerk -- a concealed weapons permit holder -- took the robbery suspect into custody at gunpoint, Provo police say. A customer entering the Greyhound station at 124 N. 300 West called police at the clerk's request. The man was booked into the Utah County Jail on suspicion of attempted robbery and public intoxication. END QUOTE - ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/8zNplB/TM - ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> LPUTAH LPUTAH -- unsubscribe: LPUtah-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com LPUTAH -- support: elwell@xmission.com LPUTAH -- forum page: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/LPUtah LPUTAH -- LPUtah page: www.lputah.org LPUTAH Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:32:01 GMT From: Charles Hardy Subject: SL School district doesn't like gun laws Lest anyone see a red sign on the doors to a SL School district building and get the mistaken impression he is required to disarms despite having a CCW. I wonder if there will be any overt of subtle pressure on teachers to not exercise their rights to self defense. If anyone receives or hears of such pressure, please let one of your friendly, local gun organizations hear about it. Charles By Stephen Speckman Deseret Morning News Salt Lake City School District fell in line Tuesday with Utah's gun laws but not without firing a shot at state lawmakers. The Board of Education adopted a policy that allows concealed weapons permit holders to bring guns into schools. Like Jordan and Granite school districts, Salt Lake's policy simply follows a state law adopted by the 2003 Legislature. But Salt Lake City board members also passed a resolution Tuesday that sends a very clear message to legislators. Until the Legislature can show how allowing guns in schools makes for a safer learning environment, the board wants schools to get equal "protection from weapons that is afforded private residences and houses of worship." In those two places, the law says the owners can prohibit weapons by giving proper notice. District spokesman Jason Olsen said it's the board's intent to send copies of the resolution to key legislators and possibly the entire legislative body. "They don't agree with the action that was taken (by lawmakers)," said Olsen. "They're not convinced this is going to increase safety in schools." And the district isn't waiting for approval from Capitol Hill on giving its own notice to concealed weapons holders. Board members received a draft copy of a "STOP" sign that may go on the front doors of schools. The current version reads, "School safety is a top priority! Please help us keep our schools safe and free from violence and weapons! "We encourage all concealed-carry permit holders to leave their weapons at home or outside of the school," the bottom of the sign reads. Board president Clifford Higbee stressed that the resolution is in no way meant to supplant policy. "I think it's clear by policy that we want to follow the law," he said. Senate Majority Leader Mike Waddoups, R-Taylorsville, sponsored the guns bill, which still makes it a class B misdemeanor for people other than concealed-weapons permit holders to bring guns to school. Waddoups said the Salt Lake District is trying to make the same "stretch" that the University of Utah has made by sticking to its own policy of banning guns on campus. That policy was upheld in a ruling by 3rd District Judge Robert Hilder last month. The district's resolution, Waddoups said, will have no impact on the upcoming Legislature. "It just adds impetus to the bill that we'll be running," he said. That bill will clarify what constitutes public and private places. "They are not private property, they are public," he said of the U. and Salt Lake district schools. Ron Molen, co-founder of Utahns Against Gun Violence, said that most people don't want any guns in school and that the Legislature has created an "embarrassing" situation for schools. "If ever there was a Legislature out of touch . . . ," he said. Very few concealed-weapons holders, Molen added, would actually take advantage of the law. ================== Charles Hardy ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:17:08 GMT From: Charles Hardy Subject: Armed man takes class hostage at Tenn College The gun haters at the U will, no doubt, use this incident as one more evidence that their anti-gun policy is needed. Of coure, they will decline to explain how a policy, or even a few signs will deter someone intent on committing a crime. It is interesting to note that while Tennesee does have a non-discriminatory ccw law (similar to Utah's), their ccw law prohibits the lawful possession of CCW weapons at school and colleges, public and private. So, in effect, despite having a shall-issue CCW law, in Tennessee, college campuses are unarmed victim zones. Exactly the situation Bernie and his buddies at the U want to maintain. Charles Armed Man Holds Tennessee Students, Teacher Hostage Wednesday, September 17, 2003 DYERSBURG, Tenn. — A man with a gun and a knife took college students hostage Wednesday afternoon, then released three people about three hours into the standoff, authorities said. There were 12 to 16 people in the Dyersburg State Community College (search) classroom when the standoff began, police spokeswoman Lisa McDowell said. No injuries were immediately reported, and McDowell said she had no details on the gunman's identity or motive. Although the hostage-taker released three people, he was refusing late in the day to negotiate with police, McDowell said. A SWAT (search) team and about five hostage negotiators were among the officers called to the scene, she said. School president Karen Bowyer called the state Board of Regents office in Nashville to report the standoff, regents spokeswoman Mary Morgan said. Bowyer told the Nashville officials that one faculty member was among the hostages, but McDowell said she wasn't sure a faculty member was among those still being held. There were no reports of shots being fired, Morgan said. Bowyer told the Nashville office that college officials thought the gunman might be a student but they didn't know what sparked the incident about 75 miles northeast of Memphis. Athletic Director Alan Barnett said that authorities cleared the campus of other students. "Police ordered all students to evacuate, but employees could stay," Barnett said in a telephone interview. "We had students coming in since it happened, but everyone is gone now." Ken Teutsch, a media specialist (search) at the campus Learning Resource Center, said from his office that he could see a couple of police cars near the building where the standoff occurred. "It's obviously very disturbing, very shocking, but on the other hand, we're not completely unprepared. There have been training and drills and that sort of thing," he said. ================== Charles Hardy ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #246 ***********************************